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Hey, John, how are you doing that? Hey, Glenn, how are you? I'm all right. This is Glenn Lowry.

This is the Glenn Show. I'm with John McWhorter, my conversation partner every other week.

We talk. This is our week. John teaches at Columbia. I teach at Brown University. He writes

for the New York Times, and I am John Paulson Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

So, John, DEI is over, John. Yeah. What are we going to do, man?

I mean, that was our bread and butter, wasn't it?

The critique of the DEI excesses?

Yeah, I think the problem with the way it's being discussed is that people are playing a little game.

I don't know if they're doing it deliberately, but.

DEI is a term that I don't think I knew until 2020.

And what that executive order of Trump's is doing is eliminating the excesses that we've seen since the George Floyd era, partly.

But the way it's being discussed by good people is as if what he's basically saying is that

we should not try to work against racism at all, and that what he's trying to do is

cancel the Civil Rights Act of 1964, et cetera.

And I think that that's a sloppy way of looking at it.

I'm fully on board with getting rid of the kind of DEI that is about dismissing whiteness and changing standards in order to have as few white people around as possible.

That's what it's been for the past five years.

And that's got to go, including the struggle sessions, all of the Robin DiAngelo stuff.

The question is whether Trumpians need to go as far as, for example,

canceling affirmative action.

...