John Kinder: World War Zoos

Species Unite

elizabeth novogratz

Society & Culture, Philosophy

5 • 911 Ratings

🗓️ 16 May 2025

⏱️ 43 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

John Kinder is the director of American studies and a professor of history at Oklahoma State University. And he is an author. His most recent book is called World War Zoos: Humans and Other Animals in the Deadliest Conflict of the Modern Age.

John’s book tells a story most of us have never heard: what happened to the world’s zoos—and the animals inside them—during World War II. It’s a sweeping, deeply researched look at how zoos became sites of propaganda, patriotism, and survival, often at the expense of the animals themselves.

But World War Zoos isn’t just about the past. It’s also a mirror, showing how many of the ethical blind spots that existed during wartime remain with us today. In an age of climate crisis and mass extinction, this conversation asks: what do zoos really stand for—and who are they really serving?

Transcript

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0:00.0	Species.
0:09.0	Unite.
0:10.0	Zoos do this all the time, right?
0:15.0	Zoos make these decisions all the time.
0:18.0	It's easy to sort of think about wartime as a state of exception.
0:22.4	This is a time in which, you know, we're kind of getting out of our, you know, comfort zone.
0:26.5	We're doing something different. But what I wanted to sort of show is that, hey, if you're
0:31.4	disturbed by anything that happens at the zoo during wartime, you know, that the word wasn't
0:37.4	different.
0:38.3	It just dragged all of these things up to the surface.
0:42.0	Zoos kill animals all the time.
0:52.0	Hi, I'm Elizabeth Novogratz.
0:55.6	This is Species Unite.
1:08.2	This conversation is with John Kinder. John is the director of American Studies and a professor of history at Oklahoma State University.
1:13.3	And John is an author. His most recent book is called World War Zoos, Humans and Other Animals in the Deadliest Conflict of the Modern Age. World War Zoos is the
1:21.0	story of how the world zoos survive the deadliest conflict of the 20th century and how little
1:27.0	has changed in zoos since then.
1:29.8	John's fantastic research tells the story of how zoos became important cultural symbols
1:34.9	and how the welfare of the animals who live there can often be an afterthought. Hi, John. It's really good to see you and have you on the show.
1:58.9	Oh, thanks for having me.
2:00.6	We're here to talk about your
2:01.8	book called World War Zoos. And as I was just saying to you a second ago, it's one of those
	...

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