John Drury on the Rule of Life: How Ancient Practices Can Transform Your Productivity and Rest

Beyond the To-Do List - Productivity for Work and Life

Erik Fisher

Business, Careers, Education, Self-improvement, Entrepreneurship

4.5 • 877 Ratings

🗓️ 15 April 2026

⏱️ 45 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

I'm excited to revisit this conversation I had with John Drury to the show to discuss how ancient spiritual practices can reshape the way we approach productivity, rhythm, and life itself. John is a professor at Indiana Wesleyan University's School of Theology and Ministry, holding an M.Div. and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, and a close personal friend of mine for over 25 years.

In this conversation, we cover:

Rethinking the Rule of Life: John introduces the concept of regula vitae — the rule of life — and explains why the question isn't whether you have one, but what's currently ruling yours.
The Pandemic as a Mirror: We reflect on how COVID-19 disrupted our routines and created an unexpected opportunity for radical understimulation — and what we can learn from the people who actually took it.
Life vs. Work-Life Balance: John challenges the very language of "work-life balance," arguing that life is your time — and work is just one part of it — never the other way around.
Orienting Values and Stabilizing Practices: He walks through his hands-on framework for building a rule of life, including five orienting values and five stabilizing practices across daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annual rhythms.
The Sabbath as Productivity Practice: John shares how a 24-hour weekly Sabbath transformed his Fridays, redirected his procrastination, and deepened his connection with family — without a hint of legalism.

If you've ever felt like your schedule is running you instead of the other way around, this conversation will give you the framework — and the permission — to start living with more intention. Learn more about John and his work at Indiana Wesleyan University, and stay tuned for part two of this conversation coming next week.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello and welcome back to beyond the to- Do List, a podcast about productivity.
0:21.8	I'm your host, Eric Fisher.
0:23.2	In this episode, I am excited to revisit a two-part conversation that I had with my longtime friend of over 25 years.
0:33.7	We met in college, Dr. John Dr. John and I have a shared interest in productivity and the Enneagram.
0:40.4	We are both fives, different versions of fives, but we're both fives.
0:43.7	And I had a great two-part episode with him.
0:46.0	So this is going to be part one, revisiting the specifics of the concept of the rule of life.
0:52.1	It's a way to anchor ourselves and orient around our values, our
0:56.7	stabilizing practices. We all need those right now. And we're talking about the balance between
1:02.2	overstimulation and understimulation. And as we move into that, we talk about Sabbath practices,
1:09.3	how a 24-hour period of rest from work can create
1:13.8	increased productivity, deeper connections with family, and also just a more holistic
1:20.1	time management approach that works with you individually, but also you and your family
1:25.7	or you and your friends. And then we'll go into part two, which I won't get into right now, but also you and your family or you and your friends. And then we'll go into
1:28.8	part two, which I won't get into right now, but let's just say that one digs deeper into the realm
1:35.5	of desert days and retreats and vacations and sabbaticals and how to fit that rest in in all
1:43.0	different types of increments. So I love talking with John.
1:46.5	I do it all the time, but you, I think, are going to really enjoy this part one of this conversation
1:52.5	with John Drury. Well, this week, I am welcoming a long time friend and a guest I wanted to
2:00.6	have on for a long time. It's John Drury.
2:03.3	John, you and I have known each other for, gosh. What was that summer? 98?
2:08.1	I think it was spring of 98 we met and then we worked together on maintenance crew that summer of 98.
	...

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