Hello there I'm Chuck Todd and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Todd cast.

So today I've got a deep dive conversation with John Bolton.

He was President Trump's third National Security Advisor.

If you've lost count, you're not alone.

It took me a minute to realize, you'll you'll get that from the

interview in a minute but one of the things that I think we have all these to

borrow a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld.

We have a lot of known unknowns about the 2024 election

and one of the known unknowns

are what happens to the conservative Republicans

who can't vote for Trump.

John Bolton is a terrific avatars.

John Bolton and Liz Cheney are sort of the avatars of this group of voters.

Liz Cheney much more open to seize it as a binary choice. You'll hear with John Bolton he's not a

100% there on the binary choice mindset. But the fact of the matter is throughout the

summer and fall of this general election.

There are going to be this group of Republicans who didn't just one time vote for

Donald Trump. They worked for Donald Trump and they are going to be out there on TV,

perhaps in paid ads, will they be out campaigning? That's a question that I'm very curious about but whether it's

Mike Pence who doesn't think Trump who claims although we don't know what he's gonna do I

think he said he'd vote for the Republican nominee. But you got his former

Attorney General Bill Barr, who said he shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office. His first

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