The best, most formative things in a Christian life that are going to shape you more and more into the likeness of Christ is not a spectacular moment in worship, as much as a daily, faithful, oftentimes boring, undilicious practice of going back to the Bible, back to prayer, back to community with your

fellow sinner sufferers over and over and over and over again.

We did an interview a few years ago. I don't require you to remember that in any way.

I can't remember much of much.

We'll put it that way.

But something crazy happened with the audio. And that rarely happens, but sometimes

it does. I mean, this is like, you know, all techy stuff. And it was so bad that we could not

actually air the show. And it brought me great grief because I take my time seriously and your time

seriously. And I was really excited about it.

We had a great conversation.

But I consider this conversation redemption for that show.

Okay, great.

No pressure on either one of us, but that's the way it's going to go.

Scott Salz is with me today, pastor and author of multiple books,

including his latest beautiful people, don't just happen. Scott, you know how people

call Billy Graham America's pastor? I think so, yes. Yes. Sometimes I think of you as a lot of our internet pastor, and I don't know how you even feel

about that, but I'll ask you in a minute.

But here's what I mean.

You're someone that I think diffuses some of the tense moments when they happen culturally.

And you're someone that I know that I look to when moments happen online because you're

not my pastor because I don't live near you locally.

And so I look to you online to sort of see how you're going to assess it, see what you're

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