Hi, and welcome to Jesus Over Everything, a short practical podcast that mixes encouragement, the Bible, how-toes, and fantastic interviews for the listener on the go.

I'm Lisa Whittle, and I welcome you to the Joe interview show with me, which I trust and pray will be time well spent.

What a joy to welcome founder and president of Phil Waldrop Ministries,

originator of Christian conferences like the popular women of joy, Phil Waldrop to Joe.

He's also a preacher, evangelist, and an author, and he's here today to talk about something

that affects a lot of us, I think, betrayal, and more importantly, how to come back from it, especially when it's by someone

you love and trust, and maybe even as was in Phil's case, someone who shared your faith.

Phil's new book Beyond Betrayal is a really helpful and informative read, and we talk all things

hard feelings, self-protection, and the balance between open-ended trust and trust with

boundaries. And Phil shares what's on the other side of a betrayal. Such goodness, such depth. Listen now to

my conversation with my new friend, Phil Waldrop.

Well, I'm glad to have you on the show today, Phil, and for several reasons.

One, it is an occasion to get to know a new brother, a strong leader, and you know many of my friends as well, Allie Worthington, Annie Downs, many others, but you and I have thus

far never met. Yeah. We got to change that. We need to meet. Yeah. If you're friends with Annie

and Allie, I got to tell you, we have to be friends. Good company, right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Good stuff.

Well, you run the Women of Joy conferences that I'm sure some of my listeners have been to through the years.

What do you find special about corporate gatherings like that?

Well, I think it's really amazing to watch when people get to come together from various backgrounds, from various parts of the country, and really from different churches.

And everybody contributes something by their presence and the worship and just sitting and

hearing the word of God taught and hearing testimonies. There is something about the synergy of that, that people are coming together,

and it helps us get a glimpse, I think, of what the body of Christ is going to be.

And in a day when there is so much that can distract us, you know, we're addicted to our cell phones,

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