And the Hi, I'm Bill Crystal. Welcome back to Conversations. I'm very pleased to be

joined today by Joe Klein, veteran columnist, commentator, author, began as a reporter.

And we can talk about that if you want Joe, but I think that's informed so much of your commentary

and you've stayed a reporter throughout and travel to

Afghanistan and Iraq and around America and based your you're commenting on

reporting which has not been the case for all of us as much so I give you a lot of credit for that and I think it's made your commentary so much more interesting.

You were columnist for Time, Newsweek, many other major organs,

author of the best selling book, Primary Colors, and was that 1996?

I don't think I've ever told you this, but a very distinguished political scientist,

I know, I was private conversation,

so I won't say his name, but what told me in 96-7,

I can't remember, we were just chatting.

And he raised the book and asked if I'd read it, and I said,

yes. He said, you know, I think that that book I'm thinking of assigning it in class I think that book teaches me more about

teaches its readers more about contemporary American politics than 98% of all the political science stuff I assigned.

So that was a, and he was a tough, greater, not a, not an easygoing guy who loved popular

literature.

That may be more a commentary on political science than on primary colors.

That could be true, but anyway people should still read that book.

And now you have an excellent sub-stack sanity clause which which people should sign up for, and which I read diligently.

Where does that, so thank you, Joe, first of all, for joining me today.

Where does that phrase sanity clause come from?

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