So, this is an interview which is way overdue.

I've been meaning to do this for a very long time with the brilliant Rachel Shabby,

who really is such a great voice of moral clarity,

someone who, well, just one of those people I kind of look to, I guess, for guidance,

leadership, no pressure, don't mess up.

And she's written a brilliant book, which is called

Off White, The Truth About Anti-Semitism, which frankly could not be more timely in so many

ways. It's such a book of, you know, it's, it's sharp, it's, it's, it's full of's, it's, it's, it's, it's full of nuance. It's, it's challenging. It's

educational. It's, it's, it's obviously deeply informed. And it's a really, really brilliant,

excellent book in so, so many ways, which I think if everyone, everyone needs to read,

and I think everyone will be so educated and I guess

armed, you know, I think that's the best book of this sort can do, kind of arm people with

the ability to understand the world better. And that is particularly important, the times we live

in, the time, the age of the rise of fascism.

Fascism's back, I'm afraid, guys, of genocide. Of course, Israel's genocide against the Palestinian people.

And of, you know, and growing, the general growing of all different forms of racism,

including anti-Semitism, including, of course, Islamophobia. We could go on.

It is a gruesome time we live in. I'm not going to, not going to lie. Hey, Rachel, with that

cheery introduction, that was a roller coaster. How are you? So cheerful. How are you? It's really

great to see you and thanks for having me on. It is always great. So we were talking before about

my ADHD and dopamine,

and I would say you're a dopamine hit. So thank you for seeing you, my dope. If you could see

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