Hey everybody, welcome to the liturgers podcast. My name is Michael Gunger, so glad you've joined us.

Today's shows a fun little conversation I had with someone who's become a dear friend.

Over the last several months, her name is Jennifer Don Watts, and as you'll see, she's interested in 12 steps,

the 12-step program and how it's related to spirituality.

And I think that's an interesting conversation for the liturgers space, so I think you'll enjoy this conversation.

I always like introducing my friends to you, let my worlds collide a little bit.

You know, I know it's a crazy world out there right now.

The world feels like it's just kind of non-stop these days.

Since 2016, right? I mean, I guess it always is, but just the last several years, it feels like one thing after the next.

And I'm sure a lot of you are tired and feeling all of the feelings scared, anxious, and I don't know, you're not alone, right?

And as trivial as it may sound, here we are.

We still have this moment, we still have this breath, and that's kind of all we can ever have.

And I wish I could like reach out there and just like give you all a hug, because it's hard world right now.

But I'm happy that we have some sort of community with each other through this podcast, and through the Sunday thing,

every week we get together on a Zoom call.

I don't know, I'm just kind of rambling here, but just sending some love out there, because I know it's tough.

It's tough for me to know.

I hope you enjoy this conversation, and hope you're taking care of yourselves and finding some space for some love and some attention for your breath in your life.

Alright, bye-bye.

Alright, so we'll begin if you need anything, edit it out, just let me know, and...

Does that happen?

And I was trying to make a joke, like, and then I'll just like delete the message.

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