From WNYC in New York, this is NPR's On the Media.

I'm Brooke Gladstone.

And I'm Bob Garfield.

After a tumultuous 18-month rain, distinguished by layoffs, celebrity hires, and skyrocketing

ratings of his cable news competitor, CNN Chairman Walter Isaacson announced this week he will

leave the network in the spring to head the Washington-based Aspen Institute.

He joins me now.

Walter, welcome back to O.T.M.

Thank you so much. It's good to be back.

When we spoke to you last, about a year and a half ago, shortly after you had joined CNN,

you were talking about finding a way to present real news and real policy issues

in a way that was engaging to the viewers. And you pointed,

this was in the thick of the Wal-to-Wall Chandra Levy coverage, which you were in my recollection

a little defensive about, but you went on to talk about, for example, the Aaron Brown program

and the Jeff Greenfield program as a way to be engaging and smart on fairly complex issues.

Well, Aaron Brown is not getting a huge audience, and Jeff Greenfield's show is gone.

The Aaron Brown Show is the most serious, quirky, smart newscast around today.

It's successful.

It doesn't beat Bill O'Reilly in the ratings,

but it gets very good advertising and does very well. I'm sorry we did not succeed with the Jeff

Greenfield show. It's hard to do a half hour, 11 p.m. show and make it successful on cable.

I just wanted to avoid having that, you know, the type of anchors

...