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And I think that was a very early lesson for me that you know, sometimes you just sort of have to run towards the fire

Good afternoon, Michael Malas here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour. We have with us a very special returning guest, James O'Keefe. His new organization is called the O'Keefe Media Group and you know him and you love him because he's done better than pretty much anyone at putting some very nefarious people on the spot and forcing them to answer questions or

At least run away from questions that they otherwise would not want to answer the first thing I want to talk to you about James. You sent me sign copies of all your books. I've been going through them. Look at this infant on the cover of this book.

If you could go back in time and talk to this child because look at a baby face. What would you say to him? Because this book came out in 2000 and 13. Yeah, exactly 10 years ago. Yeah.

I have so many many many thoughts. What would I say to him?

I would say I would say hold it up so you can see it. There you go. There it is. I shot that in New York City at a studio with a bunch of left-wing videographers and photographers.

And I was sort of posing.

I was still I just gotten off of federal probation for three and a half years. I was on supervised probation and I was a free man. I started working out. Andrew Breitbart had died.

I don't I thought about this idea of like regret and like is there anything that you wouldn't do.

I don't I think I had to go through all these things to learn to learn lessons and then that I applied in the future. So I think there was a little bit of idealism.

And naive to about human nature that probably was my greatest issue that I learned over the last decade. In other words, people took advantage of me or hurt me because I believe that they were out to help me.

So I think my but but then again, people told me that and I just had to learn it the hard way. I mean, other than that, you know, I think we're kind of a new territory here. No one's really ever written a book about what we're going through. So, but number one thing I'd say is people say James not everyone's out there to help you not everyone's mission driven.

Yeah, we're really out to FUCK. I don't know if I can say that on the area. Yes, you can. And racial slurs and no racial. I report other racial slurs, but people are really out to fuck you basically. Yes. And I know that's like a cliche and everyone always says that. But I think my upbringing and how I was raised and I want to believe the best in people and oftentimes people really let you down. I think that probably would be an older James would say to younger James.

I think I think one of the things you talked about in this book and I've experienced this in my career is people underestimate, especially when you're young, how brazen and blatantly people will do what they need to to kind of stab you in the back.

Even knowing that this is going to harm their own personal reputation and they won't even be kind of.

They want to put a kind face about it. They'll just be blatantly doing things because you're a threat to their status or their power or they just simply don't like you.

And that's kind of hard to wrap your head around when it's people who are in some sense, like fellow travelers in a cause that you believe in. And you're like, I looked up to you. I thought you're a good person. And now you're just treating me.

Like, you know, like a Clinton victim.

I mean, the betrayal is the hardest thing.

And you know, one of the FBI sources that we interviewed last year.

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