JACK CARR | Why Fiction Frees the Mind
Order of Man
Ryan Michler
4.8 • 9K Ratings
🗓️ 7 October 2025
⏱️ 68 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Early in my self-development days, I would only consume non-fiction, self-help books. It seemed to be doing the trick but I became more consumed with the amount of books I read at the expense of actually improving my life. Then a friend encouraged me to read fiction every once in a while. Shortly thereafter, my friend Jack Carr, released his first book, Terminal List – which I devoured.
And, Jack Carr is back with me again to talk about his newest book, Cry Havoc. But we talk a whole lot more than just the book. We cover how best to cultivate a new skill set (be it writing or something else), the importance of exercising the brain, making yourself better through wisdom, worrying about only what you can control, and the value of fictional work on your self-development journey.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
00:00 - Catching up with Jack Carr and reflecting on The Terminal List beginnings
01:23 - How publishing has changed and the modern author’s battlefield
05:21 - Gratitude, readers, and using social media for good
09:21 - Why Jack identifies first and foremost as an author
10:49 - Reading as a foundation: how fiction shaped Jack’s life
14:28 - Reading for joy versus studying the craft
18:13 - Military service as a calling before writing
21:46 - Why fiction develops empathy and frees the mind
25:51 - Audiobooks as a “gateway drug” back to reading
26:48 - Fiction versus visual media and the power of imagination
30:10 - Writing for the screen vs. writing for the page
31:02 - The art of storytelling and how Jack builds his novels
33:10 - How to write a better book (and why Jack ignores trends)
40:09 - Creative freedom, editors, and Hollywood contrasts
43:37 - Historical accuracy and the making of Cry Havoc
47:28 - Jack’s take on AI and creativity
48:53 - Authentic connection with readers and fans
52:00 - Sharing the author’s journey in the digital age
54:03 - The discipline of long-form creation and interruptions
58:23 - What’s next: research trips, nonfiction, and new directions
59:38 - Launching Cry Havoc and closing reflections
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Early in my self-development days, I would only consume nonfiction self-help books. |
| 0:05.3 | And it seemed to be doing the trick. |
| 0:06.8 | But eventually, I became more consumed with the amount of books I was reading at the expense of actually improving my life. |
| 0:14.8 | Then I had a friend who encouraged me to read fiction every once in a while. |
| 0:18.4 | And shortly thereafter, my friend Jack Carr released his |
| 0:21.8 | first book, Terminalist, which of course I devoured. And Jack Carr is back on this podcast |
| 0:27.2 | with me again to talk about his latest book Cry Havoc. But we also talk a whole lot more than |
| 0:33.1 | just a book. We cover how best to cultivate a new skill set, whether it be writing or something |
| 0:38.6 | else. The importance of exercising the brain, making yourself better through wisdom, worrying |
| 0:44.6 | about only what you can control, and also the value of fictional work on your self-development |
| 0:50.5 | journey. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears |
| 0:55.2 | and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, |
| 1:00.7 | every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. |
| 1:07.9 | This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. |
| 1:11.9 | And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man. |
| 1:16.4 | Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder of this movement. |
| 1:22.1 | We've been going for 10 years now. I almost said seven years. I don't know where that comes from. |
| 1:26.7 | Ten years as of March of earlier this year. |
| 1:29.3 | First things first guys, I realize the audio for this introduction is off. The quality of the interview is great. |
| 1:38.3 | So if this is hurting your ears, I definitely get it, but know that the interview is great. I'm not in the office today. |
| 1:44.9 | In fact, I've got a lot of travel planned over the next several months to do some incredible, |
| 1:50.0 | incredible interviews and introduce you to some powerful people doing good work and having success |
... |
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