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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

It’s okay to not be okay

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 22 December 2025

⏱️ 62 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

It’s not always the most wonderful time of the year. Every December, we’re told to be merry and stay positive. But a lot of us don’t feel that way. And when we don’t, the pressure to be happy makes everything worse. Sadness feels like failure. Grief feels like a personal mistake. Depression becomes something to hide. But what if dark moods aren’t problems to fix? What if they’re part of being human? Today’s guest is philosopher Mariana Alessandri, author of Night Vision, a book about how to honor the emotions we usually try to outrun. It’s not a celebration of sadness, but Alessandri calls bullshit on the culture of toxic positivity and the idea that happiness is something we’re supposed to choose on command. Sean and Mariana talk about why Americans are addicted to the light, why “cheering people up” often backfires, how Stoicism shaped our emotional habits, and what it looks like to sit with grief instead of shaming ourselves for feeling it. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Mariana Alessandri (@mariana.alessandri), associate professor of philosophy at the University of Texas-Rio Grande Valley and author of Night Vision: Seeing Ourselves Through Dark Moods. We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. This holiday season, your membership goes further: when you join Vox as an annual Member, we’ll gift a free membership to a reader who can’t afford it. By joining today, you’ll get 30% off for an annual membership, and we’ll match your membership. And if you can’t afford it, visit that same link to apply for a free membership through our gift program. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Support for this show comes from the Home Depot.

0:04.0

This holiday season, you can take advantage of holiday savings on a wide selection of top smart home security products from the brands you can trust,

0:11.0

and you can do it at the Home Depot.

0:14.0

The Home Depot has everything you need to make your home smarter, with the latest technology and products that let you control and automate your home. So you can protect your peace of mind whether you're away or at home this season.

0:24.9

The Home Depot. Smart homes start here.

0:30.6

Support for this show comes from Odu.

0:33.3

Running a business is hard enough.

0:35.7

So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other?

0:40.1

Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need.

0:44.3

It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more.

0:52.5

And the best part, Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

0:58.2

That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.

1:01.5

So why not you?

1:02.8

Try O-D-U for free at O-D-O-D-O-O-com.

1:05.8

That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com.

1:10.9

Hey, everyone, it's Sean. I love Christmas. I love New Year's. It's my favorite time of the year.

1:18.6

Always has been. But it can also be a very difficult time. There's a lot of pressure to be happy,

1:26.6

to stay positive, to keep it together, even when life

1:30.5

feels like it's pulling you apart.

1:33.8

And that discordance between how we're supposed to feel around this time and how we actually

1:39.5

feel.

1:40.4

It makes things all the more painful.

...

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