You're listening to Robert Wright's Non-Zero Podcast.

Hi, Steve.

Hi, Bob. How are you?

I'm doing okay. How are things at Harvard?

I don't suppose there have been any controversies there over the last couple of months, have there?

It's been incredibly calm.

Hardly anything to talk about. No, it's been quite upsetting on multiple dimensions.

Well, actually, we'll circle back to this because it is somewhere relevant to our main

topic today, which is the war in Gaza and, you know, how Joe Biden is handling it and things like

that. But first, let me introduce this. I'm Robert Wright, publisher, the Non-Zero newsletter,

to which I encourage everyone to subscribe. This is a non-zero podcast.

You're Stephen Walt,

Professor of International Relations at Harvard's Kennedy School,

author of among other books,

The Hell of Good Intentions,

America's Foreign Policy Elite

and the Decline of U.S. primacy.

And also,

a book that made a big splash and generated a big controversy, which you co-authored

with John Meersheimer called The Israel Lobby and U.S. foreign policy.

Both of these are actually relevant to what we're talking about today.

So you are associated with a realist school of international relations.

...