What I'm trying to do by showing, you know, the kind of golden age of industry and the golden

age of American capitalism in this light is to take it out from the, from behind those parentheses

of like the idea of a kind of, you know, great exception or whatever. Because if it's sealed

between parentheses like that, that's going to trap us in this thing where like class is

something that used to exist and doesn't

exist anymore. And instead the thing I want to say is like actually classes are always these kind

of composite heterogeneous uneven and contradictory formations which then like lay down historical

institutional deposits that then the next generation of classification has to navigate its way through. The Welcome to the death panel.

Patrons, thank you so much for supporting the show.

We could not do any of this without you.

If you'd like to help us out a little bit more, share the show with your friends, pre-order or order health communism, or request it at your local library. If you're listening to this, the day it comes out. The book is out tomorrow, Tuesday, October 18th. And of course, you can always follow us at Death Panel underscore. So today,

Phil and I are joined by Gabe Winant, assistant professor of history at the University of Chicago,

who is here today to talk about his book, The Next Shift, The Fall of Industry and the Rise of Healthcare

in Rust Belt America. Gabe, welcome to the Death Panel. It's so great to have you join us, and I'm really excited to talk to you about your book.

Thank you for having me.

It's great to join you also, and congratulations on your eminent book release.

Thank you.

I mean, I feel like our books pair together quite well, actually, and it was such a pleasure

reading yours.

The next shift is your first book, and it's a fantastic and incredibly rich and detailed piece of history.

It's kind of a case study looking at the city of Pittsburgh, and you trace how the working class, particularly steelworkers and then healthcare workers, are consistently extracted from and exploited, even in

moments that people tend to sort of look back on as some kind of golden age of worker power.

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