From New York Times, I'm Michael Bobaro.

This is the Daily.

Across the country, millions of Americans with unpaid student loans are discovering that years of patience and forgiveness from the U.S. government have officially come to an end.

Today, Stacey Cowley on what's behind the change of heart, its financial consequences for borrowers,

and the larger reckoning that it could finally trigger about how Americans pay for higher education.

It's Monday, April 21st.

Well, Stacey, it's nice to have you back.

Thanks for having me.

I think this is the third time that we have had a version of this conversation with you.

Fourth, I think.

Oh, excuse me.

But a lot of developments along the way.

Well, that's right.

I mean, we keep coming to you to talk about this subject because you're the authority on it and because it keeps changing.

And at this point, it's genuinely confusing.

And it's extremely important to tens of minds of people.

So I'm preemptively grateful.

Well, thank you for your interest.

So where exactly are we right now in this long, winding saga of America's student loans?

So we're at a real turning point on this.

After this nearly five-year period when most people weren't making payments and weren't required to do so

and weren't having any negative consequences if they didn't, the government really dropped the hammer

...