Girl, I'm excited about this conversation.

Oh, I'm so excited.

I am so, so, so excited.

Well, let's just get into it.

I'm Sayyed Jones.

And I'm Zach Saffert, and you're listening to Vibe Chat.

Thank you. Today, I am beyond elated. We have a very, very special guests here to help us kick off Pride Month, which we are still celebrating here on Vibe Check. But I wanted to bring on someone who's very near and dear to me and a person I've referenced on this show a few times. And I think they have a lot of insight for us that is going to be helpful as we navigate this month. Who's here with us today is Dr. Jack Halberstam, professor from Columbia University, and author of the book The Queer Art of Failure in many, many, many other works. But the book, Queer Art of Failure is one I have referenced many times on the show. It is a text that came out in 2011 while I was in college.

My copy is right there.

Yes, I have a copy.

I tell everyone to get it, but Jack is considered one of the most important queer theorists ever, just period, ever.

And I'm lucky enough to consider Jack a friend and a mentor for me.

He was a person who changed my life in college. And then I went on to

meet him as I grew on my career. We got to debate each other about the future of queerness

once. And Jack and Public got me right together about how I was working at Grindr and how I was

part of a queer capitalist machine that was exporting queerness to parts of

the world where queerness was an American export and I was doing all these.

Anyway, it's an honor to be read for filth by Jack.

Oh, an honor and honor.

But I think, you know, for me, Jack's work has been a place I go to for just spiritual guidance,

similar to what I do with Sayyad's work.

There are people in my life that I return to their writing, not because I know it well,

but because I learn more about myself every time I read it.

...