Welcome once again to the Conversations that Matter podcast. I'm your host

John Harris for an important discussion this morning. Even if you are not a

Lutheran, you're going to want to listen to this discussion because no matter what

denomination or even if you're in an independent church organization you're

part of ministry obviously social justice has made inroads into all kinds of places.

And it's not even just social justice, it's just, it's modern secularism, it's modern modernity,

it's all these anti-Christian secular notions or humanist notions if you want to call them that

that have made their way deep into the heart of Western churches and ministries.

And so as we're listening to what's happening

in the Missouri Synod,

I just like you to think about your own context, whether you Lutheran or not and if you are Lutheran please take up you write a letter do something positive to help

your denomination escape the the tragic shipwreck that other denominations have fallen into.

With me to help discuss this because he is way more knowledgeable to me is David Ramirez.

David Ramirez is the pastor at St Paul's Lutheran Church in Fort Wayne and he's been following this very closely.

So David, I appreciate you joining me. Thank you. Yeah, thanks a lot for having me on. So what's happening? I noticed there was a Twitter thread that gained a lot of attention in the Missouri Synod from Ryan Turnip Seed I believe is the name at

least that's a Twitter account name and number of people sent this to me and it

was just jaw dropping that the Luther's larger catechism there's a new

addition that is to be published and the changes are just incredible in regards to LGBT issues and just a whole bunch of things. So walk us through that. What is actually happening right now?

So I'd clarify one thing right off the bat that the catechism itself was not changed.

The stuff that has been found objectionable or unclear by a wide variety of folks and undoubtedly the stuff that you saw was actually contained in essays that were included in with a new edition of Luther's large

Catechism. So the Catechism itself the text remains absolutely unchanged.

But I think this goes to the heart of maybe some confusion

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