Is it time to ditch historical figures as heroes?

Moral Maze

BBC

Society & Culture, Religion & Spirituality

4.5 • 609 Ratings

🗓️ 10 July 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

The Bank of England has been accused of being the 'Bank of Wokeness' after proposing to cut historical figures from banknotes. Images of Winston Churchill, Jane Austen and Alan Turing could be replaced by images of themes such as nature, innovation, or key events in history. It raises the possibility of British birds, bridges, or bangers and mash featuring on the next series of £5, £10, £20 and £50 notes and would take us down the route favoured by the Euro which feature many an imaginary structure or window. But what do we lose when we potentially erase these historical figures from a place in our pocket? Are they problematic figures who are essentially divisive? Or are we discarding important figures who achieved greatness and still embody moral values? Is the concept of heroism one we need to reject altogether or do stories of human endeavour still represent the best way to promote culture and identity?

PANEL: Anne McElvoy, Ash Sarkar, Matthew Taylor, Tim Stanley

WITNESSES:

Paul Lay, Historian Maddy Fry, Writer and Journalist Professor Simon Goldhill, Historian Professor Ellis Cashmore

CHAIR Michael Buerk PRODUCER: Catherine Murray ASST PRODUCER: PETER EVERETT PRODUCTION CO-ORDINATOR: Pete Liggins EDITOR: Tim Pemberton

Transcript

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0:00.0	BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.
0:05.0	Good evening. The Bank of England is proposing to drop historical figures like Winston Churchill and Jane Austen from our banknotes
0:12.2	and replace them with other symbols of national identity that would not, as the bank's chief cashier put it, be divisive or upset people.
0:21.8	No final decision has been taken, but a public consultation is underway suggesting
0:26.8	different themes, Stonehenge, wind farms, the Angel of the North, even fish and chips
0:32.6	that would reflect the real diversity the bank says it's after.
0:38.1	The decision about who or what to put on banknotes is a moment for national naval gazing.
0:43.5	The euros are, to some, a common currency in every sense,
0:47.3	because of the abstract banality of their design.
0:50.6	The Canadians literally put a loony on their dollars.
0:55.1	It's a kind of bird.
0:59.0	We had our heroes, maybe not for much longer.
1:04.8	Are real historical figures inevitably flawed in the light of modern mores, too divisive.
1:13.2	Or do humans need heroes to idealise, emulate and identify with that instill pride and embody virtue. What price heroes? That's our moral maize tonight. The panel, Anne McElvoy, executive editor of the news and
1:18.4	commentary site Politico, Ash Sarkar from the Navarra Media Group, the historian Tim Stanley,
1:24.1	and the chief executive of the NHS Confederation, Matthew Taylor.
1:28.8	Anne, do you have a hero and should he, she, they be on a banknote?
1:35.0	So I'm going to go with about 60 AD, Budaica, Bodicea, however you want to pronounce her.
1:41.4	I love the idea of this woman fired with injustice and leading an army and
1:45.9	sacking a few cities along the way and perhaps not enhancing our relations with the European
1:51.0	allies. In this case, the occupiers from the Roman Empire. But yeah, I'm going to have her on
1:56.5	the banknote for sure. Ash, I'm guessing Margaret Thatcher. I say put her on the 50 pound note so the
	...

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