You may objectively believe that the United States is engaged in this multidimensional

competition with China and Russia everywhere and on every issue.

But that, such an expansive, indeed maximalist concept of competition, doesn't lend itself to a strategy. Imagine what kind of conversation

we potentially might have had if the United States and China had collaborated at the outset of the

COVID-19 pandemic the same way that they collaborated in the immediate aftermath of the global financial

crisis.

Hey, welcome back to the Modern War Institute podcast. I'm John Ambo, editorial director at MWI, and I'm joined on this episode by Ollie Wein. He is a non-resident senior fellow at the

Atlantic Council, and I'm really proud to say, also a non-resident fellow at the Modern

War Institute.

His recent research has focused on great power competition.

Now, this is a phrase that many listeners will have heard with increasing frequency.

It has become the sort of go-to lens through which the US defense and national security

establishments view the world, and also a

framing mechanism within which to think about and plan U.S. interactions with other actors.

But is it a strategy? Have we truly defined what great power competition means in a practical

sense? And are there practical drawbacks to this conceptual understanding of our relations with countries like China and Russia?

We discussed these and other questions in a conversation I really enjoyed.

Before we get to that conversation really quickly, I have just a couple notes.

First, if you aren't subscribed to the MWI podcast, you can find us on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, tune in,

literally anywhere you get your podcast so you don't miss an episode. And lastly, as always, what you hear in this episode are the views of the participants and don't represent those of West Point, the Army, or any other agency of the U.S. government. All right, here's my conversation with Ali Wine. Ali, thanks so much for joining us once again on the MWI podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

So the reason that I was really excited to kind of bring you on, once again, as listeners

...