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Moral Maze

Is democracy a failed experiment?

Moral Maze

BBC

Society & Culture, Religion & Spirituality

4.5609 Ratings

🗓️ 1 October 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Later this month, millions of demonstrators are due to take to the streets across the USA for a second time, under the banner “No Kings”. Organisers say, “America has no kings, and the power belongs to the people”. They are mobilizing to protest against what they see as democratic backsliding during Trump’s second presidency.

Faith in democracy has been shaking all over the world. Recent Pew research suggests that, since 2017, public dissatisfaction with democracy far outweighs satisfaction across 12 high-income countries, including the UK, France and Germany. There are different interpretations of what’s causing this, and how to fix it.

Some observers think that Trump’s more controversial policies – from DOGE to attacks on elite institutions to the dismantling of DEI programmes – could have been inspired by the ideas of Curtis Yarvin, a computer engineer turned political theorist. He's known for founding an anti-democracy philosophical movement called ‘The Dark Enlightenment’, dismissing America's democratic values and instead calling for the return of an absolute monarchy, run by a 'CEO' figure.

Are democratic values a fiction, designed to prop up the elites? Or are they the only safeguard we have against tyranny?

Chair: Michael Buerk Panel: Carmody Grey, Ash Sarkar, Anne McElvoy and Inaya Folarin-Iman Witnesses: Curtis Yarvin, Mike Wendling and Andrés Velasco Producers: Dan Tierney and Peter Everett

*This is a special episode of the Moral Maze recorded at ‘How The Light Gets In’ philosophy and music festival: https://howthelightgetsin.org/festivals

Transcript

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0:00.0

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

0:05.6

Your time starts now.

0:07.2

You're about to listen to a BBC podcast.

0:09.4

Absolutely right.

0:11.5

So, you might like to know that the BBC makes loads of other podcasts.

0:15.6

Really?

0:16.4

Wow.

0:17.2

Many of them are very funny.

0:19.1

Which I think means...

0:20.3

A hatful of ha-hars. And energy. Even if we do very funny. Which I think means... A hatful of ha haas.

0:21.7

And energy. Even if we do say so ourselves. I agree 100% of that. Find them all on BBC Sounds. Just tell us a joke. Come on, tell us a joke. Tell us a joke. Come on, tell us a joke. Just search comedy on BBC Sounds. I'm really looking forward to getting stuck in. Hello. So it's a depressing time for those who've grown up with a casual assumption that democracy

0:41.0

is not just the best, or at any rate least worst form of government, but the only properly

0:46.4

moral one.

0:47.8

Opinion polls across wealthy countries like ours in the United States suggest two-thirds

0:52.9

of us are now dissatisfied with the way democracy

0:55.5

is working in our countries, up from around 50-50 less than a decade ago. In America, increasingly

1:02.5

influential thinkers like Curtis Yavin are saying democracy is inefficient and wasteful,

1:08.6

a failed experiment, and calling for the return of the monarchy,

1:12.2

more Steve Jobs than George III, running the state like a CEO and a corporation.

1:17.6

It's a right libertarian vision that would sweep aside civil service, elite universities,

1:22.7

mainstream media, the quasi-religious elite they see as preaching progressive values to the masses.

1:29.5

These ideas are reportedly gaining traction in the upper reaches of the Trump administration.

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