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Hello and welcome to a special Saturday edition of Coffee House Shots.

I'm Katie Balls and I'm joined by James Forsyford Fraser Nelson.

It wasn't so long ago that ministers were telling anyone who had listened that we would not

have immunity passports in this country. We were not a Papers Please nation. And frankly,

there was nothing really to worry about in terms of concerns that immunity could be something

that would get you into a venue. Yet now, these plans

are under discussion. Ministers aren't bothering to deny it and the Prime Minister this week suggested

that you could need a vaccine passport to go to the pub. Fraser, in your telegraph column this week,

you ask whether the UK is becoming a biosecurity state. Can you talk about what you mean by that?

Well, the phrase actually came to me. It was actually Kate Andrews who wrote about it a few days ago,

and she was just raising the prospect. And I thought that's an interesting notion. And then we learn

that Public Health England is going to be renamed the Health Security Agency. Now, that's quite

interesting language. In this country, when we think about the security services, we tend not to

think about epidemiologists and public health officials. But then it struck me that the language

was perhaps just catching up with reality. And that got me thinking about what else we would need for a biosecurity state.

Or you can call it health security to use the government's language, but biosecurity, it seems

pretty much the same kind of thing. Now, you would need, for the start, a whole bunch of rights,

which have to lose their status of rights and become privileges. So the freedom

of protest, the freedom of assembly, the freedom to have your child educated at school, the

...