Your Listen.

Your listening You're listening to Robert Wright's Non-Zero Podcast.

Hello, Bob here.

I just want to say two things to provide some context for this conversation about artificial intelligence.

First, the conversation was taped before the whole OpenAI drama, which, in case you somehow missed it, was an attempt by OpenAI's board to oust CEO Sam Altman,

an attempt that backfired and resulted in Sam Altman,

basically ousting the board, or at least three of its four members.

Second, this conversation is nonetheless quite relevant to that drama

because the person I had the conversation with, Dan Hendricks,

is at least roughly representative of the worldview of the three ousted board members.

Two of those three board members, in fact, were from organizations funded in part by open philanthropy,

a very AI safety conscious philanthropy, which is also one of the funders

of the Center for AI Safety, which Dan Hendricks is the director of.

Now, I certainly don't mean that Dan is on exactly the same wavelength as the ousted board members,

but I do suspect that one result of last week's drama is that Open AI will in the future be less constrained than it would have otherwise been by the kinds of concerns that you'll hear Dan express.

Okay, with that as prelude.

I hope you enjoy the conversation.

And I also hope that if you do enjoy it, you will rate and review the non-zero podcast.

And if you're watching this on YouTube, I hope you will smash the like button, not just click on it, not just hit it, not just press it.

Smash it.

Thank you.

Hi, Dan. Hi, Bob. Are you doing? Doing pretty well. How are you?

...