This is CBSI in the world. I'm John Batch with Ben and Ben Taliblo.

Senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, my guide on Iranian malign

activity. This headline from a piece that Ben and published at Politico, Iran's ballistic

missile capabilities are a growing threat to Europe. While we're talking about now,

it's not nuclear weapons, but a ballistic missile program that Benham has carefully

explicated over a great period of time. It's all available to his information on the

FDD website. Right now, however, we've got a timeline to talk about. There are sanctions

on Iran's ballistic missile program from the UN. They expire this year and October is

my memory.

And now, is Iran working so carefully with Moscow in creating ballistic missiles that

are excellent for targeting in Ukraine, for example, that Iran is waiting till October

in order to reveal the cooperation? Benham, I read your piece in Politico and I'm left

puzzled. This would seem very sophisticated by Iran and Russia. It would also seem that

it would be obvious to the opponents in NATO who could act effectively. Is that what's

going on right now? Does NATO know of this possibility of ballistic missiles, not just

drones, but ballistic missiles from Iran to Russia?

Well, I certainly think it is a possibility that the level of cooperation between Russia

and Iran is sophisticated. But if I had to pinpoint more from the Iran inside, these guys,

as much as they shun the international order, they also covet praise from it. If you remember,

this was part in parcel of Iran's public diplomacy after the U.S. left, for the ultimates. America

looked like the rule breaker, the norm breaker. And in this sense, the Iranians are waiting

for restrictions, but choose to be permanence, by the way, on ballistic missile testing and

...