Hello, and welcome to another episode of I Way, which means a gemel, a podcast that aims to change people's minds.

I hope you're all right, and if you're not, well, fuck me, no wonder you're not. Look at what's happening.

It's just unfathomable. There are really no words, and especially depending on where you live in the world right now,

I can't imagine how anxious you are.

I don't think any of us that you've been able to comprehend the kind of chaos that we seem to be descending into so fast,

just again and again and again, and region upon region upon region around the world.

And I send you all of my love and I'm thinking about you all the time, and I urge you to get offline as much as you can,

as much as possible and say for you, because our brains are just not built for this, for this much information about this many terrible things.

Just try to preserve yourself and know that it's okay, and you don't have to be a hero 24 hours a day.

Sometimes you have to build back your strength, and speaking of the importance of being offline and the online world and how stressful it could be,

today's guest talks to me in depth about just that. Her name is Ginger Gorman, and she is an expert on online trolls.

And I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast may have experienced trolling themselves,

and may have happened to a loved one, or maybe someone that you look up to, maybe a politician, or a public figure,

and considering the subject matter of this podcast, I imagine you're the kind of people who feel fucking horrified when you see that kind of behaviour,

and you see what it can push people to sometimes, people of any age, any background.

And so Ginger wrote a book called Troll Hunting about her own journey into the world of trolls, into being trolled herself,

and then trying to understand what makes a troll become such like a hateful person like, what are their childhoods, what are the links,

how do we prevent a society that breeds so much hatred and damage and desensitization?

And her book, Troll Hunting, is fascinating, and she is fascinating, and she came onto my podcast today to talk about that book,

to talk about her story and what she's learned, and more hopefully how we could actually get out of this pattern that does seem to be getting worse,

especially in the last two years in which we've all been online.

I love how open she is, I love how clear and passionate she is, and I'm absolutely fascinated by her decision to befriend some of these terrifying trolls

...