4.8 • 1.7K Ratings
🗓️ 12 January 2023
⏱️ 68 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Conned, swindled, or bilked, about 50 million Americans were ripped off by scammers in 2020. What deadens a person to preying on another? Tricksters commit crudely constructed fraud. Jung said they are “not really evil [but do] the most atrocious things from sheer unconsciousness and unrelatedness.” Cheaters may have behaved decently until tempted by need and opportunity and then become caught in a web of deception. Narcissists exploit others due to an inflated need for admiration and status that forecloses empathy and relatedness--and crooks turn predation, power, and risk-taking into a career. They lack authentic affiliation with others and an abiding sense of self; egotism and performative grandiosity substitute for feeling and being. The scammer unwittingly scams himself by seeking false gold in the external world. Real gold lies within.
Here’s the dream we analyze:
“I’m with my family in a grand dining room, around a large table with lots of food on it. It’s going to be dad’s funeral. I hear that mum is really upset because she wants to see dad’s body before they bury him. Some men bring dad’s body directly past the table where we are sitting, and as they bring the body past, I recite the lyrics to the Kenny Rogers song “The Gambler” to my brother. I look at him sincerely, and I clearly say: “On a warm summer’s evening, on a train bound for nowhere, I met up with a gambler, we were both too tired to sleep. We took turns in staring out the window at the darkness Until the boredom overtook us, and he began to speak. He said, “Son, I’ve made a life out of reading people’s faces Knowing what the cards were by the way they held their eyes. And if you don’t mind me saying, I can see you’re out of aces, and for a taste of your whiskey, I’ll give you some advice. You’ve got to know When to hold ’em, Know when to fold ’em, Know when to walk away, Know when to run, You never count your money When you’re sittin’ at the table, There’ll be time enough for countin,’ When the dealin’s done, Now every gambler knows, The secret to survivin,’ Is knowin’ what to throw away, And knowin’ what to keep, ’Cause every hand’s a winner, And every hand’s a loser, And the best you can hope for Is to die in your sleep.” Then I stop, and we start to eat the food.”
REFERENCES:
Bernie Madoff, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff
Elizabeth Holmes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes
George Santos, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santos
John Carreyrou. Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup. https://a.co/d/3Gv3NMJ
Maria Konnikova. The Confidence Game: Why We Fall for It Every Time. https://a.co/d/gWd18xR
Podcast: Dr. Death. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dr-death-s1-dr-duntsch/id1421573955
Sam Bankman-Fried, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bankman-Fried
GIVE US A HAND!
Hey folks,
We need your help. Please become our patron and keep This Jungian Life podcast up and running: https://www.patreon.com/ThisJungianLife
JUMP IN THE POOL - THE WATER’S FINE!
We’ve created Dream School to teach others how to work with their dreams. A vibrant community has constellated around this mission, and we think you’ll love it. Check it out: https://thisjungianlife.com/enroll/
RESOURCES:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThisJungianLife/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisjungianlifepodcast/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thisjungianlife/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThisJungianLife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe8QSBLNlv765pT097FDeLA
Enroll in the Philadelphia Jungian Seminar and start your journey to becoming an analyst: https://www.cgjungphiladelphia.org/seminar.shtml
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
0:00.0 | Welcome to this Jungian life. |
0:03.0 | Three good friends and Jungian analysts, Lisa Martiano, |
0:07.0 | Debra Stewart and Joseph Lee invite you to join them for an intimate and honest conversation |
0:12.0 | that brings a psychological perspective to important issues of the day. |
0:17.0 | I'm Lisa Martiano and I'm a Jungian analyst in Philadelphia. |
0:22.0 | I'm Joseph Lee and I'm a Jungian analyst in Virginia Beach, Virginia. |
0:27.0 | I'm Debra Stewart, a Jungian analyst and Cape Cod. |
0:37.0 | Well, with Sam Bankman freed and Elizabeth Holmes in the news recently, |
0:42.0 | we thought it might be interesting to take a look at the psychology of the scam artist. |
0:49.0 | What kind of personality traits or experiences lead someone to engage |
0:56.0 | in fraud and deception? |
0:59.0 | And how might we understand this from a depth psychological view? |
1:05.0 | So we're going to circumambulate this topic as we do and see what we can find out. |
1:11.0 | Well, the first thing that strikes me is how we are so fascinated by these anti-social personality traits. |
1:20.0 | It seems like every movie that I look at in Netflix, every television series, |
1:27.0 | that there is either a glorification or a triumphal war with these kind of anti-social qualities. |
1:36.0 | And sometimes we're cheering the tricksters on because we think that they're coming up against some despotic government. |
1:44.0 | They have to overturn or we're cheering somebody on as they're warring against the trickster evil in the world. |
1:53.0 | But this polarity of tricking and scamming and stealing and anti-social behavior is something we can't seem to get enough of in our own culture. |
2:05.0 | I wonder in a way if we are thinking about the polarity around the hero, |
2:13.0 | that on the one hand we have the shining knight, but on the other hand we have these sort of aberrant heroes like Jesse James |
2:23.0 | and some other people who sort of do it their way. |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Joseph Lee, Deborah Stewart, Lisa Marchiano, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Joseph Lee, Deborah Stewart, Lisa Marchiano and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.