Inside COP: The New World Order - power, politics and the green pie
Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast
Persephonica
4.7 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 16 October 2025
⏱️ 38 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The global balance of power is shifting. Can climate diplomacy keep up?
As China rises, the BRICS expand and the United States retreats, new power blocks formed by competition and conflict will take centre stage in the negotiations in Belem.
In this week’s Inside COP, Tom Rivett-Carnac, Christiana Figueres, Paul Dickinson and Fiona McRaith ask: what will it take for COP30 to foster genuine cooperation in a changing world? And who will get a slice of the new green economy?
They are joined by Bernice Lee of Chatham House, who explores how multipolar geopolitics, resource security, and the race to ‘share the green pie’ are transforming climate diplomacy. And Joanna MacGregor, Senior Adviser to the Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC, sets out why progress is still being made despite global headwinds - and what implementation success could look like in Belém.
From populism to geopolitics, the team asks: can climate ambition survive an age of competition? And what lessons from past COPs might help Brazil carve out space for collaboration in a fractured world?
Learn more:
🌍 Check out the official COP30 website for background and announcements
💡 Dive into Chatham House’s work on subjects including climate policy, energy transitions, and natural resources
🤝 Read ‘Will China and the BRICS fill the ‘leadership gap’ on climate change?’ from Carbon Brief
🎤 What do you want to hear on Inside COP? Ask us on SpeakPipe
Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:
Instagram @outrageoptimism
LinkedIn @outrageoptimism
And we want to hear from you! What do you want to hear more of in Inside COP? Get in touch with us. Get in touch with us via this form.
Lead Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks
Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan
Audio Editor: Ned Carter Miles
Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford
Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas
With thanks to Groundswell and Global Optimism.
This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to outrage and optimism. I'm Tom Ravittkanek. |
| 0:06.1 | I'm Christiana Fogaris. No, I'm not. I'm Paul Dickinson. |
| 0:08.6 | And I'm Fiona McGrath. |
| 0:09.8 | And sadly, we have no Christiana this week, but she will be making an appearance as we talk about the new global order that surrounds the climate negotiations. |
| 0:17.0 | Thanks for being here. |
| 0:19.8 | So, friends, Paul moonlighting here is Christiana. Welcome. |
| 0:23.6 | What we wanted to do today was pull the lens back a little bit. |
| 0:27.0 | We have been speaking a lot in the last few weeks on what is going to happen at the Copp in |
| 0:31.1 | Belém, what we can do to make it successful and all the different facts that are going to |
| 0:34.6 | add up to trying to get us back on track to 1.5 degrees. |
| 0:38.0 | But this happens in a context. |
| 0:40.4 | It happens in a geopolitical context, in an economic context. |
| 0:44.0 | We're at a moment right now where there's been conflict in the Middle East, |
| 0:47.3 | there's conflict involving Russia, the rise of AI, all of the economic opportunities and tensions. |
| 0:53.2 | Context matters. Yeah, well, look, you know, |
| 0:55.4 | I love to dwell on the private sector. And I wanted to say that alongside this kind of political |
| 1:01.9 | process, I think the private sector has been on a journey over decades. But the first, you know, |
| 1:07.2 | really significant thing is they committed to net zero. And they did it actually, if you think |
| 1:10.7 | about it for just exactly the same reasons as the governments did. They understand |
| 1:14.9 | the science and they've made these kind of long-term targets. Now, I would say that they're on a |
| 1:21.9 | journey that's sort of consistent, notwithstanding some of the Trump pushback. And I think that's |
| 1:26.1 | really important because it sets |
... |
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