If Talk Therapy Worked, You’d Feel Better: Mike Zeller Reveals New MDMA Therapy Breakthrough

Wellness + Wisdom Podcast

Josh Trent

Emotionalintelligence, Behaviorchange, Mindfulness, Religion & Spirituality, Mindset, Neuroscience, Self-improvement, Habits, Wellness, Consciousness, Anxiety, Fitness, Behavioralpsychology, Education, Health, Breathwork, Nutrition, Meditation, Organic, Strength, Mentalhealth, Depression, Spirituality, Psychedelics, Personalgrowth, Selfhelp, Supplements, Selfdevelopment, Physical

4.6 • 895 Ratings

🗓️ 10 June 2025

⏱️ 95 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Wellness + Wisdom | Episode 748

Are your unresolved childhood wounds hijacking your relationships and keeping you stuck in depression or anxiety?

Neuro-Rewiring Expert Mike Zeller joins Josh Trent on the Wellness + Wisdom Podcast, episode 748, to share how healing your protector parts can transform conflict into deeper connection and trust, why psychedelics can reopen critical social learning periods and give you access to the hidden programming of your mind, and how to move from fear-driven protector parts into authentic flow state.

"Our core longing as human beings is connection and love. We think that the wounded, victim, angry self is who we are because that part is in the driver's seat, and we're identified with that feeling. When we do the neuro-rewiring work, we separate that enmeshment. And because of that separation, we can now recognize the patterns and awareness instead of being in it so much that we can't see." - Mike Zeller

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In This Episode, Mike Zeller Uncovers:

[00:55] The Yearning Connection

Mike Zeller
Why all of us are seeking love and connection.
How our old childhood wounds can make us feel scared of connection.
Why pregnancy triggered Mike's wife's childhood trauma and depression.
What led him to study and experiment with psychedelics.
How psychedelics created an opening for his wife's healing.

[09:55] Access Your Programming with Psychedelics

Psychedelics reopen the social reward learning critical period
How psychedelics give us access to our programming.
Why Mike searches for his clients' patterns before he gives them psychedelics.
How adults don't have the same neuroplasticity as children.

[14:35] From Mind to Emotions

How Tony Robbins names his wife's personalities.
Why we get wise by going through different experience.
How Mike was learning everything about the mind, but not about emotions until he started working with psychedelics.
Connecting with the body, mind, heart, and spirit.
Why our body remembers the emotions we went through.

[20:50] Your Psyche Has Different Parts

481 Scott Jackson | Rewire Yourself: How To Create A Life You Love With Freedom From Subconscious Sabotage
How we live under the distortion that we're separate.
Why we have multiple parts of our psyche.
How our parts show up in a conflict with our partner.
The importance of getting our parts into harmony.

[26:40] Creating a Harmony Between The Different Parts of Us

How to create integrity through integration.
Why the parts that are in harmony let each other lead.
Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
Why we need to work through our emotional resistance.

[30:35] Be Gentle with Your Protector Parts

Ego Is The Enemy by Ryan Holiday
How perfectionism can sabotage ourselves.
Why being gentle to our protector parts changes the chemistry.
How Mike and his wife reduced the length of their fights from 2 days to a few minutes.

[35:50] Become a Master of Repair

The importance of repair after a rupture in a relationship.
Why repair is not a responsibility of the person who is at fault.
How to express that we're tired of being the one who always leads.
Why it's okay when our partner doesn't have the capacity to carry their load.

[41:05] Inner Child Healing for Men

Why it's hard for men to heal their inner child.
How high-achieving men want to feel deserving of love.
746 Marc Gafni | Why Soulmate Relationships Don’t Work: The Secret Whole Mate Code to Cosmic Love
How Josh was scared of being poor and not providing for his family.

[45:00] From Anxiety to Flow State

Why we can't go too fast when we're healing our protector parts.
The role of future pacing in defining what we truly want in our lives.
How parts work can move us from anxiety to a flow state.
Stealing Fire by Jamie Wheal + Steven Kotler
Why hustle culture has done a lot of damage.
The prerequisite for entering a flow state.
Why we go back to being the same person after a plant medicine journey.
What practical tools help us get into a flow state.
The Art of Impossible by Steven Kotler
How being in a flow state can help us with depression and PTSD.

[54:20] Couples Therapy? Yes or No?

How MDMA in therapy helps couples be in the present moment and access flow state together.
Why plant medicine trains our nervous system to prepare for what's possible without the medicine.
How Josh realized in a session with Mike that he intellectualized a traumatic moment from when he was 11.

[59:25] How to Recognize The Pattern

How we get enmeshed with a part of us and identify with it.
Why separating ourselves from a part allows us to recognize the pattern.
No Bad Parts by Richard C. Schwartz
You Are the One You've Been Waiting For by Richard C. Schwartz
How we find a way to soothe ourselves that can be unhealthy to us.
Why addicts use drugs as a coping mechanism.
The importance of letting a woman fully vent while asking her a specific question over and over again.
When our parts are in harmony, they will cooperate because they feel seen.
How we can test whether we've healed a part of us.

[01:07:00] Rewiring Your Neurology

What makes people regress after a peak experience in parts work.
How future pacing helps us get where we want to be.
The importance of creating new neural pathways.
Why pre-made decisions lead us to our goals.
How visualizing the outcome helps us achieve it.

[01:13:40] Future Pacing + Asking The Right Questions

How we can use future pacing in everyday situations.
Why 'what if' is one of the most powerful opening questions.
How we are the ones who create our life, even when we hate it.
The questions everyone should ask before getting married.
Why our core wounds get precisely activated by our partner.

[01:20:30] Emotional Epigenetics

How our parents' wounds help us become who we are.
Why Mike's grandparents were anti-Hitler but had to have his photo at their house.
How his parents didn't cultivate a connection in their relationship.
It Didn't Start with You by Mark Wolynn

[01:25:40] 9 Pillars to Thriving

Why suffering is inevitable, but we can suffer less.
14 tools to rewire your nervous system
How the nine pillars to thriving help us live fully in our potential and in harmony.
Why our conscious mind only processes a small amount of information compared to our subconscious mind.
How energy is the medicine of the future.

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Power Quotes From The Show

Exile Protector Parts

"Exile protector parts are there to protect something that was vulnerable, something that happened in our life where we got taken advantage of, or someone was really harsh with us. It's something that's unprocessed. That protector part is wrecking havoc and we're losing energy. We want those parts in harmony. So we have to gently invite that part back into our psyche, make sure that part feels safe even when he or she has a little bit of a flare up, then approach again with gentleness. So then the flare up becomes less and less." - Mike Zeller

Relationship Will Trigger Your Wounds

"Our core wounds are often going to be activated in a very precise and needed way from our partner. That means that my wife's core wounds and my core wounds are perfectly in friction. So if I left, then I would have cowarded out on dealing with my core stuff." - Mike Zeller

What Is The Driving Force of High-Achieving Men?

"High-achieving men are high-achieving because they want love and they're clamoring for love. They think their pathway to get there is to excel and be perfect. They’re working hard so that their partners will love them, even though their partners already do love them. They don't have to do all those things. Instead, they can achieve from the state of 'I'm already loved and I'm already worthy and I just want to offer my gifts to the world.'" - Mike Zeller

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About Mike Zeller

Mike Zeller | Healing the Hidden Wound: New Trauma + Nervous System Rewiring Method Mike Zeller is the only Neuro-Rewiring Expert in the US. He uses a unique combination of neuroscience, NLP, biohacking, somatic healing, flow state psychology, and psychedelics (when appropriate) to bring a rapid and lasting rewiring of your subconscious and nervous system that goes far deeper than the typical mindset experts.

As an entrepreneur, his businesses have done over $300 million in sales, and he himself has founded or partnered in over 20 ventures with a heavy emphasis on social entrepreneurism.

Mike studied under masters of the industry such as Tony Robbins, Russell Brunson, Jay Abraham, and many others. And he’s even mentored over 100 high-level entrepreneurs from four different continents.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	What if we're not broken? What if there's just a part of us that is wanting to be loved?
0:04.6	Our core longing as human beings is connection and love.
0:08.8	And you think this wounded victim, angry, that is you.
0:13.3	Because that part is in the driver's seat and you're so identified with that feeling.
0:17.6	I want to do this work, now you separate the enmeshment.
0:20.6	So now because you have the separation, you can recognize the patterns and awareness instead
0:25.1	of just be in it so much that you can't see.
0:28.4	Mike Zeller helps achievers heal their trauma and rewire their nervous system.
0:33.0	He is a MDMA advocate for mental health and author of genius within.
0:41.6	Solisibum, NdMA, which I primarily use, you have a three to six hour window, basically where your nervous system is more wide open than any known point in your life.
0:45.1	When you say wide open, what do you mean about that?
0:46.7	It's like I have back end access to your programming.
0:50.6	If you think of the human operating system as like a computer operating system,
0:54.3	I've got back in access to Josh. With your permission, with your support, with your insight,
0:59.7	where we work together on turn on and off switches. The medicines create the opening, but
1:05.9	then you still have to do the parts work. How does that actually work from a neuroscience
1:09.9	perspective and also from a spiritual
1:11.5	lens? What if we're not broken? What if there's just a part of us that is wanting to be loved?
1:21.6	I think that's spot on. I mean, if you look at the end of the day, our core longing as human
1:27.2	beings is connection and love i
1:30.1	heard a rob bell talk one time he talked about how at the very cellular like atomic level
1:35.2	structures is connection electrons want to connect with other electrons and when it when you know
	...

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