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The meaning of life is not about reaching some point or striving towards a final goal.

It is about being engaged in activities that you can recognize in a firm as ends in themselves.

And firm as intrinsically meaningful to sustain and cultivate even though they can always fall apart and even though they can never be completed or achieved once and for all.

Hello, welcome to the Ezra Klein show on the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Sean Elling, Vox's interviews writer, filling in for Ezra Klein.

This is a very unusual show and I honestly don't even know where to begin. My guest is Martin Haglund, a philosopher at Yale and the author of an amazing new book called This Life.

Haglund is a deep and ambitious thinker who has written what I consider one of the most important books of the last several years.

I thought about how to summarize the book and I'm just not sure there's any good way to do it given its enormous scope.

Instead, I'll offer a warning and an invitation of sorts. This is a really heavy and sprawling conversation that begins with questions about the meaning of life and ends with a discussion about socialism as the only

justifiable political project in light of our actual condition as human beings. For Haglund, this life is all we have. There is no heaven, no afterlife, no eternal beyond.

We live and we die and that means that the most important question any of us can possibly ask is what should we do with our time.

Haglund's book isn't a celebration of death or even a critique of religion. It is rather an attempt to grapple with the implications of our fragile condition, a condition that we share with all living beings.

In this conversation Haglund and I talk about what it means to live a free and purposeful life without regret or illusion and we talk about the limits of capitalism and why it doesn't really allow us to own our time in the way we ought to.

I have to say I really love this conversation and I admire Haglund's willingness to tackle the biggest questions any of us can ever ask and I think by the end of it you will too.

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