ICE Partners with Israeli Phone Hacking Spyware
It Could Happen Here
Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
4.0 • 6.5K Ratings
🗓️ 10 September 2025
⏱️ 36 minutes
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Summary
Garrison talks with Cooper Quentin from the Electronic Frontier Foundation about Paragon’s spyware Graphite, how it reads text messages, who is most at risk, and misinformation exaggerating the spyware's known capabilities.
Sources:
https://citizenlab.ca/2025/03/a-first-look-at-paragons-proliferating-spyware-operations/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/02/trump-immigration-ice-israeli-spyware
https://jackpoulson.substack.com/p/exclusive-ice-has-reactivated-its
https://www.wired.com/story/ice-paragon-solutions-contract/
https://dfrlab.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/09/Mythical-Beasts.pdf
https://finder.startupnationcentral.org/company_page/paragon
https://red-dot.capital/portfolio
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/09/eff-statement-ice-use-paragon-solutions-malware
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This is an IHeart podcast. |
| 0:06.1 | QuarZone Media. |
| 0:10.4 | Welcome to It Could Happen here, a show about things falling apart. |
| 0:14.7 | One such thing, frequently falling apart, is any notion of privacy or digital privacy. Ever encroaching surveillance is one of the |
| 0:24.5 | biggest global issues affecting free expression and a free press, both directly through surveillance |
| 0:29.9 | technology, but also by chilling speech. I'm Garrison Davis, and this past week, news has swept |
| 0:37.2 | the internet that ICE is using |
| 0:39.6 | software from an Israeli company called Paragon, which allows ICE, or DHS, to secretly hack into |
| 0:47.0 | any smartphone, break encryption, access messages, track real-time location, and turn your |
| 0:53.6 | iPhone or Android into a walking |
| 0:56.1 | listening device. All of which sounds very scary, and some of which is true. Though, some of |
| 1:04.1 | these claims are exaggerated or even likely false based on what we can currently infer from |
| 1:10.2 | published research. |
| 1:12.2 | Due to legitimate fears, we live in a world of surveillance paranoia, which can lead to |
| 1:18.4 | surveillance myths. This is a core function of the panopticon. People should take ICE's |
| 1:25.2 | new enhanced smartphone surveillance capacity seriously, but to adequately |
| 1:29.9 | do so requires an accurate understanding of the threat model, which we will get into later |
| 1:36.2 | this episode with some help from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. |
| 1:41.7 | But first, let's address the newsworthy aspect of this story, what has actually |
| 1:46.5 | changed recently. DHS first contracted with the U.S. branch of Paragon in September of 2024 |
| 1:53.9 | for $2 million. But later that October, the contract was put on hold, thanks to a Biden executive order |
| 2:01.5 | restricting government use of foreign spyware. |
... |
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