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The Ezra Klein Show

Ian Bremmer on the Risks America Poses to the World

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

News, Government, Society & Culture

4.314.5K Ratings

🗓️ 2 June 2026

⏱️ 92 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Over the past month, there have been two dominant stories in American foreign policy. One, of course, is the war with Iran. The other is the much-anticipated summit between President Trump and Xi Jinping of China. And I think if you look closely at both of these stories, you see that our foreign policy has entered into a period of absolute incoherence. I’m not even sure what the status of the Iran war is at this point. What is Trump trying to achieve? What is he willing to accept? Taking a more hawkish approach to China has been a core and consistent principle of Trump’s since his first term. He’s been insistent that China has taken advantage of the United States and that America needed to change that dynamic and flex more power. But is that happening? Is that even Trump’s position anymore? So I wanted to do an episode looking at China and Iran and trying to assess Trump’s foreign policy in general and the ways he’s remaking what America means on the world stage. Ian Bremmer is the president and founder of Eurasia Group, a political risk research and consultancy firm, and the global affairs publication GZero. He’s also the author of, among other books, “Every Nation for Itself: What Happens When No One Leads the World.” Mentioned: Bowling Alone by Robert D. Putnam The J Curve by Ian Bremmer “The ‘Vibecession’ Is Over. The ‘Permacession’ Is Here.” by Annie Lowrey “Disney and the Decline of America’s Middle Class” by Daniel Currell Eurasia Group’s Top Risks for 2026 Book Recommendations: The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams A World Appears by Michael Pollan The Chronoliths by Robert Charles Wilson Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Julie Beer. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Johnny Simon and Isaac Jones. Our recording engineer is Johnny Simon. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker and Carole Sabouraud. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Shows is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The

0:07.0

The Over the past month, there are two dominant stories in American foreign policy.

0:32.8

One, of course, is the war with Iran.

0:35.3

The other is the much-ant much anticipated summit between President Trump and

0:40.8

Xi Jinping of China. And I think if you look closely at both of these stories, you see that

0:47.0

our foreign policies entered into a period of absolute and complete incoherence. Donald Trump said that the point of the war with Iran was to end the

0:57.0

threat of the Iranian regime and to forever end their capability to get nuclear weapons.

1:01.6

They will never have a nuclear weapon. This regime will soon learn that no one should challenge

1:09.0

the strength and might of the United States Armed Forces.

1:12.9

Now, if you look at what is being considered, it appears that neither policy is going to be achieved.

1:18.7

So what are we doing there? What are we trying to achieve there now?

1:23.0

And if you look at President Trump's entire time in politics, he's been committed to nothing so much as changing America's relationship with China.

1:31.7

We can't continue to allow China to rape our country, and that's what they're doing.

1:37.8

It's the greatest theft in the history of the world.

1:41.1

Containing China, making sure we have power in that relationship, or we begin to detach from it.

1:49.0

But if you look at our policy now towards China and you look at that summit with China,

1:52.0

are either of those things happening?

1:54.0

Are we in fact moving in the opposite direction?

1:56.0

The American and Chinese people share much in common.

1:59.0

We value hard work. We value courage and achievement.

2:03.4

We love our families and we love our countries. Together, we have the chance to draw on these

2:09.0

values to create a future of greater prosperity, cooperation, and happiness.

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