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Cannonball with Wesley Morris

I Thought Lady Gaga Was Over. I Was Wrong.

Cannonball with Wesley Morris

The New York Times

News Commentary, Society & Culture, News, Arts

4.89.2K Ratings

🗓️ 16 October 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Wesley Morris didn’t love Lady Gaga’s new album “Mayhem.” Then Caryn Ganz, The Times’s pop music editor, took him to see Mayhem — the tour — on its final night at Madison Square Garden. It totally changed the way both of them think about Gaga and what she’s been up to all this time. In short: All hail Mother Monster. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Wesley Morris and this is

0:13.3

Cannonball today

0:15.4

Put your paws up

0:17.1

It's a dark time in this country right now.

0:27.3

And weirdly also a dark time in pop, maybe even for Taylor Swift.

0:31.9

But that's a different conversation for a different episode.

0:34.6

And don't worry, I might do it.

0:37.0

But seriously, darkness, death, blood, skulls, bones, a sharp knife, sharp teeth.

0:44.3

As far as a certain class of pop singers concerned right now, it's all Carrie in pig's blood

0:49.9

and Gladys from weapons.

0:53.4

Chapel Rhone.

0:54.4

She likes these gothic baby doll killer get-ups.

0:58.4

I mean, I at least have seen live in concert Charlie XX do this thing where she spits

1:03.3

and then licks her spit back up during a set.

1:06.6

Doge Cat just went on S&L and the vibe was real Beetlejuice horror picture show.

1:12.3

Even Sabrina Carpenter, who is not somebody I associate with this moment of dark pop,

1:17.7

I have seen her with the occasional severed lip.

1:20.7

But you know whose children these little monsters are?

1:24.4

Lady Gaga's.

1:25.5

The woman perfected the performance of dark weirdo. She seemed to figure out

1:31.6

how to take the entire life cycle of a pop star from birth to crypt and turn it into something

1:37.5

really interesting and disturbing and special. But she's also been hard to figure out after a certain point, at least for me.

...

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