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So I had a bankruptcy in 2021, and, you know, I'm debt free. And, well, I'm debt free after,

you know, paying the KGB, I mean, IRS. And, um, and then I was one of the very few that had their public service.

You know, I worked for the federal government and I was one of the very few that had their loans forgiven.

I've worked for the federal government for 13 years and I feel like a lot of shame.

I feel ashamed about the bankruptcy, but then I also feel a lot of shame about the

public service, forgiveness in a way.

Because, like, I mean, I took advantage of the program that was

available to me, and I'm proud of serving the government so long,

but I guess I feel a little, I don't know, I tell people not to, like, count on it

all the time and that there's, you know, all the data shows that very few people are ever

going to have it happen to them and don't want them to count on it.

You know, I just happen to be in that window where it worked for me.

And so it's like I won the lottery, but I'm like ashamed that I won it a little bit.

And yeah, so Jennifer, Jennifer, I'm actually going to change direction a little bit.

Is that okay?

Okay.

Yeah.

When it comes to shame, I can talk about it all day long.

But lucky for you, you call the number where there's more than just academic answers.

I actually think the person you would talk to is Dave. He's been there.

Okay. Well, see, I have what do I know? The guy with the PhD doesn't know. I can talk about it, but Dave can talk to him a lived experience, which is much more valuable.

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