That's the thing. It's like, I don't need to make myself because I am God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works that he laid out beforehand for me to walk in.

So if I look in the mirror and I go, there are better producers than me, there are better dads than me, there are better elders than me, okay, that's fine.

What I want is to be, to just submit myself, oh, make or come and make what you will than me. Okay, that's fine. What I want is to be, to just submit myself,

Oh, make or come and make what you will of me. Today's episode is part of a short series of

interviews we're calling hymn stories, where I interview modern songwriters and musicians about their

hymns, all of which are featured in the brand

new Sing Himnal, published by Crossway, in partnership with Gettie Music. Ben Shive is a musician,

arranger, and award-winning music producer. A longtime collaborator with Andrew Peterson, Shive

co-wrote the Modern Classic, Is He Worthy, and was a contributor to the sing hymnal, which is now available. Ben, thanks so much for joining me today on the Crossway podcast. I'm so happy to be here. So I'd love to start today just by hearing a little bit about your own life. So, you know, where do you live right now? Tell me about your family briefly. And what do you spend your time

focused on these days? Yeah. So I live in Nashville, Tennessee. I'm married and I've been married for

about 23, 24 years, and I have four kids. Two of them are in college, two of them are in high school.

So I'm thinking the kind of thoughts that you think when you are learning how to

parent your kids in a new way and learning how to how to send them off into the world.

Just the day-to-day life is going to change here in the next few years. That's right. Our house is

quieter than it was two years ago. We've just got two kids living with us and in many ways we're

enjoying that because we've had a lot of activity in our life for the last 20 years.

Like my whole, I had my first kid when I was 23, so my whole adult life has been noisy and demanding and great.

That's wonderful.

I love that about it.

And my first kid was born, I think, when I was 25.

Yeah.

Kind of similar.

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