Most comedians say if I could just make one person laugh

on doing my job, that is so true.

And that one person needs you.

It's to be you.

It really needs to be you. No, it's a comic book shop. And every Friday night, I'd see. There they are. And they're Doctor Who Starrps. Yes. It's kind of a... Right? You're very funny. You are. Well, let's build half brother. I got half.

Welcome. Thanks for having me, buddy. Thank you. It's, uh, I've been on your show. Not your own, my show. Um, I want to start with, let's call it the elephants in the room. Okay. You don't have to agree. I'm going to say the elephants and then you tell me if you wanna talk about the elephants in the room. All right. Okay. ADHD, OCD, germophobia. They're all connected. Understood. So the reason I wanna start there is not to do a comedy bit. It's because it's become part of your story. Do you feel that way? I don't know if it's part of my story or just it's who I am and it's interpreted, mostly misinterpreted by people who know me as my stick, my bit. To be fair, because you and I just got to know each other a little bit recently. Although we met years ago, I don't know if you remember that. We met somewhere in like the Regis and Cathelia or something. Probably side you back stage. You were very nice. It was nice to meet you back. Still nice. But I'm still tremendously conflicted. you know, there's always a conflict going on, always. I never feel, you know, that's my resting state is in turmoil. Right. So, this kind of the point I was trying to make is because I just got to know you a little bit recently, when I first heard about this, because I didn't know it, and I think I even tried to hug you or something, and you recoil. But because you're such a comedian in the culture, I think people, they can't help thinking, it's kind of like an act, but I know it isn't. So that's kind of why I want to start there. Well, I was talking to somebody yesterday and I was close for a short amount of time with Louis Anderson. You know, Louis Anderson being in here. I knew, yeah. Louis seemed to like me and whenever I would see him, he'd want to sit and talk to me for the 20 minutes. One of the sweetest, smartest, beautiful human beings, and I miss him dearly. But I'm using this as kind of an analogy of how I feel. You know, I think Louis had a lot of turmoil, and I think we all do in our lives. And whether it's internal or external, it doesn't really differ. But a big part of Louis' act was his weight and eating, at least when he first started before he started delving more into maybe family and relationships and things like that. And I remember sitting with him in a restaurant and somebody came over to the table and tried to be really funny and said something like, you're the fat guy or whatever. And he got really upset. And which he needed to be really upset and shunned the person that was approaching him. And that's when I realized like like, even for me, you know, he could use his weight and his eating and whatever and, you know, humor was a panacea. Humor was a tool. Humor is a coping skill. And that's not for others to play with. And by the same token, I believe in art kind of works well when the artist is somewhat authentic. I would imagine in music. I've paid dearly for my authenticity, yes. But the truth is, you are who, you know, if we listen to your songs and we listen to your music, we should be able to somewhat interpret who you are, or how you think. That's kind of what I'm poking around at. Right. Not to say it defines you, but it's become these things, these letters that people throw around that they don't always necessarily know what they mean OCD and and and we get that look at what but what i'm saying is um I am who I am ideal with who I with what I deal with and It was never considered humor when I was young. And we could talk about that earlier. I act out and I kind of am impulsive and I can get silly and I can get what may be interpreted at times as funny. And you know what, it works for me and it's bought me houses and it's bought me. And it's also, I learned and it wasn't my mission by being open about it. It kind of, because when I did open up about it accidentally on the Howard Stern show, we've talked about that before, privately. And I talked about it in my book. When I did open up about it, I was terrified and thought that was the end of the world

that people know that I am.

I do think people would think of you.

My first thought, because when it happened,

I was already married with children.

I was in my mid-40s.

I thought,

because I'm gonna be 70 this year

so that you're talking about 30 years ago.

I thought number one, my kids who are in school are going to be humiliated by the fact that now the world will know that their parent as a mental case has mental health issues. So that was my first thought. My second thought was that I won't be employable. I won't be able to do anything

anymore. You think Hollywood would sort of... Yeah, if I tell somebody, you know, as a child

of the 50s, if I'm really open about the fact that it's really hard for me to function, you know,

any given project to where anything is, somebody's putting up millions of dollars for a TV show or for whatever. Why would you have somebody who is mentally unstable? I'm getting a handful. A handful. So that was unemployable. And then the overwashing fear was humiliation. So it's embarrassing to talk about yourself, you know, especially for somebody who wasn't, I'm not a social, I'm not social. Yes, I know this about you. So those are the three emotions that kind of overwhelmed me when I, you know. I will say because I've been around your world a little bit in recent times. The people who know you best and the people who love you, they speak of those issues with affection. So there's something sweet about that because it says that they love you and they understand that navigating those things for you is sort of part of the deal. But that's, but it doesn't, it does, in their eyes it doesn't define you, which I think is telling. The truth of the matter is, and I feel not that I'm, and it is my soapbox, mental health, I think at any given point in any human being's life, whether they have a diagnosable issue or not, you're going to have a hard time functioning and you're going to need outside help and a coping skill. And whether that's going to be, you know, the end of a relationship, a death diagnosis of, you know, the end of a relationship, a death, diagnosis of, you know, so I realized that, you know, I cope with all those things as a human being living as long as I have lived, along with when nothing is going on, what's going on in my head? Well, what would be a key coping skill for someone that's overwhelmed by the environment, for example? For me, you know, for me, and I think for most people, it's, I constantly don't feel in control of whatever, whether it's the environment, whether it's, you know, whatever's

happening. I think that would surprise people because you've had your section, even though you're Canadian, you're such an American success story, you know what I mean? You're not in control. Okay, but let me finish my question. So, or my point, it's, it's, you're seen as somebody who's running his world. I mean, you have, you have a world. I mean, I literally refer to, because there's some connection here with how we shoot the production in your world. I literally call it how a man delus world. I mean, you have a world. And there's all these businesses and people and employees. And you are a boss, whether you think of yourself as one. And even being on your podcast, your family's very much involved. I mean, it's a family effort. I'm impressed by that. Thank you. I work really hard at Nazim to control my environment, because I am so cognitively aware of how much control we don't have in everything. So, and because that is so prevalent in my, you know, that's always poking at me, I try really hard to, and I think it's an issue to control. Like even, I mean, you're leaning into the fact that, you know, I have some, the studios and the kids are working at my studio, but that's because I can't, I'm so afraid of working someplace else where somebody else is trying to like. So it's less the sign of power than more of a sign of, I my environment within the parameters of a certain level of control so I can feel comfortable so I can be my best. It's not power over anybody else. But it is a sign of power. I want the power to control what goes on in my in my world. I always want that's why out of everything that I do in my career the the most provocative and the place that I always wanna land is a standup, because as a standup comedian, and that's where I start, let people go, you're the AGT guy, or you're the deal or no deal guy, the standup is the only moment where I have power. I control, and it's not power. I get it. I control. you mean. I do. I do. There's no cast. I don't have to wait for a line to do that. I don't have to throw to a commercial. I don't have to hit a mark. I don't have to even curb my language or my subject matter. But it's really the one place where I can live in the moment, be totally distracted, and not be concerned, or the concern I'm using the word concern, but it's terrified of what I don't have control of what could come at me. Sure. I have a theory, and this is a theory I've arrived at later in life, but almost all human behavior, at least social behavior, is defined by trauma, meaning something happens at somewhere in the early years, and then that sort of defines a patterning that persists with or without the input of what caused the trauma. And I read a story about when you were a kid, there was something with the sand,, or something under your skin. And yes, I had these, I got, I we didn't know, but I got bitten by a sand fly in Florida, the beach, and it laid its eggs under my skin. And I had these bumps, and when I would scratch them, then the bumps would move and crawl up. It's like, I don't know that that caught, that's traumatic. I'm not looking for the rosebud moment. But I feel that there isn't a living human being that hasn't been traumatized. I would imagine birth is traumatic. I would imagine... There are beliefs. My daughter had a traumatic birth. She's six years old now. And if I didn't see it with my own eyes, I don't know about osteopaths. Yes. So we took our daughter to a really well-known osteopath. And my wife's mother is very into infant development, believes like, you know, children need to properly crawl in order to do certain things and you know you know, create core strength and core trust values. And, you know, it's all really deep, infant developmental stuff. Anyway, so my mother-in-law said, because of the baby's birth trauma, you need to take her to an osteopath. So I went along, you know, I got this one month old baby, and the gentleman later on the table, and he was touching her like this just very gently like nothing crazy. And all of a sudden she just it was like at the exorcism. All this stuff started coming out of her like this. If I hadn't seen it with my eyes, I wouldn't believe it. And the guys like yeah, that's all the birth trauma. And it's a good thing we're releasing it now because you would have carried this into her life. So whether people believe it or not, I don't really care, but I'm saying is I believe in what you're saying, you know, that there's a sort of everybody has imprinting from everything. Sure. And everything is traumatic. You know, I, oh, somebody says, somebody once I heard an analogy about life, you know, it's, we, choose our song. We cannot choose... You've been right your own, you know? Right. But in the pantheum of the world, if this is a song, but you can choose how you're gonna dance to it. Okay. You know? So that's playing... Are you, are you, Zorba? You know what know me? Right. But the truth is it makes it what you're saying makes sense. Like we are a human being with the I would imagine having being a parent now and I and and I reflect on myself, you know, I've said this so many times, but you know, I thought I'd grow up and have kids and teach them about the world, but I grew up and had kids. And as a parent, they are teaching me about the world because I'm seeing how humans, other human beings are reactionary and how they react to the environment, how they react to whatever I say or whatever is done, how they're, you know, and you have to imagine there is a soul, you know, you think of an infant for me is kind of like a foreigner who is learning the language in that, but they're fully, I would imagine whoever they are and whoever we were was fully formed. I'm sure you start with your kids. I mean, I look at my kids at one month old and I could see who they were going to be. And that's who they turned out to be. They, it was hard baked in them. They had nothing to do with the environment. Absolutely. So you can imagine if this soul is being squeezed through this canal and they can't breathe in the mean. It's glorious to me, I don't know. It depends what part of you is kind of the whole thing. Anyway, I won't get into that, but I'm just saying, birth has gotta be traumatic. Everything is traumatic. The moment they learn, the moment you say, good night and you close the light and close the door and walk out of the room for a minute they cry and then they go to sleep. So without looking for the rose but moment, I guess what I'm looking for is, is there a connection in your mind between comedy and something to do with your trauma in your life? Because we've talked about it. Absolutely. Okay, great, so give me that. Okay. Two things. If... You know, the two masks of comedy and tragedy are very close together. I think they're exactly the same. They really are. It's just a different reaction. Well, Shakespeare understood this at, like, some cellular level. And so does Howie. The thing... Howie shakes beer. Oh. Tis me. But, but, uh... It's again. Sorry, I didn't write you. It's no problem. No, it's a, it's a good conversation. You can, something tragic can happen. You look at the mask of tragedy. You can cry. And that's your reaction to it. And you cry, and you wail, and you scream. Something tragic could happen. And some people can laugh. Or need to laugh. And the laughter is what holds you together so you don't break apart. So you don't break. And that's what I feel when I feel emotional pain, when I feel fear, when I feel out of control, out of control, I need to, I need to, I laugh. So is the, is the, I don't wanna assume, you know, in my mind, how we mendell the comedian that I saw on television everywhere in the 80s, like you were all over the place, right? I saw that person many times. Was that a character that was formed by trauma as a retrama response, or was that a character that you sort of authored? You're using the term character, but it wasn't much different from me. And you know, a lot of people- But you're very calm now, so that that's why. I only know you personally this guy. Because when somebody went ladies and gentlemen how he manned hell, I was terrified, you know. And I learned and kind of emulated what I thought I saw from Richard Pryor was authenticity. If I feel like my internal voice was going, okay, okay, all right, okay, okay, okay. What? So it's internal dialogue in what I let out. Yeah, you know, a lot of people. By the way, I feel like I got that. I understood that somehow. It resonates with me because this, I'm attaching it to a 40 year old memory, Right. Right. Like here I am in some suburbs somewhere watching you on television. Right. From Chicago where everybody in Hollywood looked fantastic. Right. And there you are. Terrified. Going, okay, okay. And but I saw that as your internal dialogue. So I did get that. So. So, but I think that that's why if I had to analyze and I don't have to, but if I had to analyze why I rose to some notoriety as opposed to in any given day you go to a comedy club and you can see somebody on amateur night and they don't, it's not because you can't say that's not funny. You can only say that doesn't make you laugh. You can't say that's not good. You can only say I don't relate to that. I think that as much as people thought it was funny, deep inside and without being able to articulate it, people understood that kind of, that kind of hype, that's how I feel inside. I don't think you could articulate that. Was it in Chicago? Go ahead. No, was it a concern that you weren't funny enough? Is that some unsub- It was. It was. I watched the clip of you last night, where I don't know what show you run. And it's like prime that era. And you asked the audience kind of a somewhat rhetorical thing, like, you know what I'm saying? And the audience didn't respond. And but what you were really looking for was to connect with their own inner dialogue. And you pushed them to you got a response. It was really, I was one of those things because I don't think I would have noticed if I was just watching a clip of you. I was trying to watch you work basically, right, basically, right? So I watched you kind of flip that internal dialogue

into their internal dialogue and then create this other conversation. It might, my, like it's like somebody's saying, I know I'm a bit crazy and I know this a bit silly, right? And they're kind of like, and you're like, no, really, like can you see what's happening? But join me in this. But you see what I'm saying.

Oh, that's my mouth.

I've asked you, what's your name?

...