How Ukraine turned into the world’s drone testing lab
The Take
Al Jazeera
4.7 • 748 Ratings
🗓️ 1 December 2025
⏱️ 23 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The rapid development of drone technology has changed how wars are fought. Ukraine’s growing arsenal of drones has strengthened its chances against an overpowered Russian military force. As tech companies are investing in this new technology of death and destruction, what will the Russia-Ukraine war’s legacy of drone warfare look like even after a peace deal?
In this episode:
- Ben Makuch, National Security Reporter
Episode credits:
This episode was produced by Tamara Khandaker, and Chloe K. Li with Fatima Shafiq, and our host, Natasha Del Toro. It was edited by Noor Wazwaz.
The Take production team is Marcos Bartolomé, Sonia Bhagat, Spencer Cline, Sarí el-Khalili, Diana Ferrero, Tracie Hunte, Tamara Khandaker, Kylene Kiang, Phillip Lanos, Chloe K. Li, Melanie Marich, Catherine Nouhan, and Noor Wazwaz. Our editorial interns are Farhan Rafid, and Kisaa Zehra. Our host is Malika Bilal.
Our engagement producers are Adam Abou-Gad and Vienna Maglio. Andrew Greiner is lead of audience engagement.
Our sound designer is Alex Roldan. Our video editors are Hisham Abu Salah and Mohannad al-Melhem. Alexandra Locke is The Take’s executive producer. Ney Alvarez is Al Jazeera’s head of audio.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Al Jazeera Podcasts. |
| 0:07.0 | Today, Ukraine has become the world's most advanced weapons lab. |
| 0:16.0 | Now it's just a total unapologetic arms raised to figure out the cheapest, most deadly systems that you could possibly get and mass produce them. |
| 0:25.4 | As peace talks in forward, how the war in Ukraine and its drones have permanently changed the way future wars are fought. |
| 0:34.1 | I'm Natasha Del Toro, and this is the take. |
| 0:46.8 | Hi, before we continue with today's show, please don't forget to leave us a comment and let us know what you think about today's episode and what stories you want to see us do next. |
| 0:51.3 | Or if you're listening on the podcast app, let us know where you're listening |
| 0:54.3 | from. And while you're there, leave us a five-star review. It helps people find the show. |
| 1:03.2 | My name is Ben Makku. I am a national security reporter, investigative reporter, and I'm currently |
| 1:08.3 | in Canada. Well, Ben, welcome to the take. |
| 1:11.3 | We're really excited to have you on again. |
| 1:13.4 | So you recently wrote an article for The New Republic. |
| 1:17.0 | And I want to start with one scene that you write there. |
| 1:23.5 | So back in 2023, you're in Kiev reporting and a colleague invites you out for a drink, right, at a bar. |
| 1:31.6 | And you're thinking this is going to be some sort of dive bar, so you show up in muddy boots. |
| 1:36.7 | But it turns out that that is not what this is. |
| 1:39.8 | This is like some really posh club that's got like this VIP vibe. |
| 1:45.1 | And you come across a pretty unexpected scene there. |
| 1:50.4 | Maybe you could take me back to that moment and tell me, what did you see? |
| 1:55.3 | Yeah, so the mud on my boots was literally from mud that was from a frontline position or close to a frontline position |
| 2:01.9 | in Harkeve. And I'd seen a soldier who had clearly had PTSD talking to a tree probably not |
| 2:09.0 | nine hours or ten hours before walking into that club and looking across seeing a kind of middle |
... |
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