Welcome to Pushback. I'm Aaron Mate.

Joining me is Nikolai Petro.

He is professor of political science at the University of Rhode Island,

an author of the new book, The Tragedy of Ukraine,

What Classical Greek Tragedy Can Teach Us About Conflict Resolution.

Nikolai Petro, good to have you on.

Nice to be with you.

Before we get into the book, let me just ask you your thoughts on the state of the Ukraine war,

where we are at today and where you see this going.

Well, it looks like it's going to drag on.

Of course, that could be just a negotiating stance for all the sides involved.

My focus has never been on the battlefield successes and failures,

but really to look and understand

how this conflict came about

and what is likely

to resolve it in the long run

to lead to what I call

social harmony.

Well, yes. And so this is, I think, what makes your book so unique is that you have, well, first of all, you have access to Ukrainian sources that otherwise we just do not read about in the NATO states.

But also, you frame this conflict not so much as a international one, talking about all the factors that get a lot of attention such as NATO expansion.

You really focus on the internal dynamic here and how the war in Ukraine is really an outgrowth of an unresolved internal conflict inside Ukraine that's been going on for a long time now. So for people who are not

familiar with this line of thinking or more who have seen the arguments about NATO expansion

...