He's having a tremendous amount of influence,

not just on this current presidential administration,

but just on viewers and listeners,

and people are taking their cues from him.

And I think that's what matters.

He's more than just a podcaster, he's more than a media figure.

I really think he's kind of a movement leader at this point.

I think he has bigger ambitions and broader aims than just

beating Joe Rogan in the podcast game. I'm Joanna Coles. This is The Daily Beast podcast,

and today we're going to be talking to someone who has enormous, enormous influence over Donald

Trump and his cabinet. And he's sort of hiding in plain sight.

We know he has influence, but to really understand the depth of his influence, to understand

the history of his influence. We are talking to the author of a new book about Tucker Carlson. Jason Zengley has spent the last three years

writing about Tucker Carlson. He knew him back in his magazine days. And what he unfolds is a

really remarkable story of a man struggling in media, dying to be at the centre of everybody's attention.

He's tried MSNBC. He's tried CNN. He's tried dancing with the stars. He's tried to be a

game show host. And what does he settle upon after his Fox News fiasco where he gets fired

as part of the Dominion settlement. He creates Tucker Carlson

media snuggles back into bed with a man he loathes, who in the Dominion emails, it becomes

clear he's relieved. He's never going to have to think about Donald Trump again. He snuggles right back up to him and uses Donald Trump to create the kind of conservative

world that Tucker thinks we should all live in. And that should be like Victor Orban's

Hungary and a little bit like Putin's Russia. It's alarming. It's scary and it's very well

...