I started in this industry like 20 years ago as a designer.

And so I just was like, everything is design.

If you have a great design, you're golden.

And when it was, like design is so powerful.

And it's a great way you can tell visual stories beautifully as well.

But what I eventually learned was that good design can only get used so far.

You have to start with the copy.

Then bring that copy to life with really beautiful design and images.

So I'm a big fan of copy first, so much so that I've kind of shifted my focus solely on the copy part of it, because that's what

I'm finding is getting the most results for my clients.

What's up, my friend? Welcome to today's episode of the Art of Online Business podcast. Rick Mulready here. And joining me on today's show is Chris Jones. Chris is the founder of

Red Door Designs and creator of the copy that sells in two and a half hours flat system. And that's right,

we're talking about copyrighting today because this is the topic I think we can all use help with.

I'm raising my hand right now saying that, and I talk about it here on today's podcast,

and I've never felt like I've been very good at writing copy,

certainly better than I used to be, but it's never been a strong suit for me. And so I was

introduced to Chris by our mutual friend Neil Williams, who is one of my accelerator coaches.

And you've heard Neil on the podcast here before. And so she's like,

you've got to have Chris on the podcast because she's brilliant with writing copy in such a way

that it doesn't have to take us a ton of time. And so she is a story brand guide copywriter.

She has, she's been mentored by Donald Miller, who's the author of building a story brand.

And she has worked for the likes of some high profile clients like Nike, Jeff Bezos, but she

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