This is NPR's life kit. I'm Megan Kane, the shows managing producer.

I begin. How many would you leave you by?

Every time I'm about to call a customer service line, I feel like I've already lost.

I'm in this state of dread because I know as soon as a customer service representative says,

no, Megan, your request for a refund just isn't possible. I'm going to fold instantly.

I mean instantly. After all, I'm just one person, whereas a company has poured so much money and time

into creating policies that help them keep their money. How am I ever supposed to get through?

Please hold on your call and be transferred.

Behind every rule, there's a person who has to apply that rule. And that person often has some

leeway and they're only going to change things if you can reach them. That's Craig DeSantis.

He's a consultant who specializes in negotiation, which makes him pretty incredible at dealing

with customer service. He sends seemingly impossible tasks like successfully returning three new

iPads after the return period was over and negotiating $16,000 medical bill to zero dollars.

But he didn't do any of this by yelling or demanding to speak to the manager.

It's tempting to think of these as transactions, but there's a real human there. And if you've ever

worked in anything where you have customer service or anything like that, they're having a human

experience in that moment, just the same as you are. And if you treat them as a transactional

being, then they will also treat you that way. I know this can get tricky. Depending on your gender

and or race, people can make some pretty unfair and demeaning assumptions during a call.

That is very real. But Craig says it's possible for anyone to learn these tips of negotiation

to make any customer service interaction work in your favor. This episode of LifeKit,

dealing with customer service, we're going to press zero and speak to an associate and get what we

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