Hey there, it's Stephen Dubner.

Today we're bringing you one of my favorite episodes from the archive.

This came out in 2020.

I distinctly remember recording this interview in a COVID-era coat closet.

The episode is called How to Make Your Own Luck.

And it's a conversation with the writer Maria Konnikova about her decision to become a professional poker player.

We've updated facts and figures as necessary.

As always, Stephen Dubner.

I love a book that immediately lets you see what the writer is seeing,

lets you hear what they're hearing, even smell what they're smelling.

The room is a sea of people.

Bent heads, pensive faces, many obscured by sunglasses, hats, hoodies, massive headphones.

It's difficult to discern where the bodies end and the green of the card tables begins.

The smell of stale casino air fills the room,

old carpet, powder, cold fried food and flat beer, and the unmistakable metallic tang of several thousand exhausted bodies that have been sharing the same space since morning. It's the first day of the biggest poker tournament of the year, the main event of the

World Series of Poker.

Did you truly not know how many cards are in a deck of cards?

Yes, I thought there were 54.

This is a true story.

It's not exaggerated for the book.

That is Maria Konnikova.

Her book is called The Biggest Bluff.

...