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Masters of Scale

How to make smarter changes, with cognitive scientist Maya Shankar

Masters of Scale

WaitWhat

Diversity & Inclusion, Jeff Berman, Bob Safian, Startups, Business, Management, Entrepreneurship, Mindset, Reid Hoffman

4.64.4K Ratings

🗓️ 22 January 2026

⏱️ 40 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Cognitive scientist Maya Shankar has made a career of cleverly using insights from behavioral economics to fuel her work in the Obama White House and in Silicon Valley. She talks with host Jeff Berman about the tools everyone can use to be more resilient in the face of change. 

You can find Maya's book The Other Side of Change here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/729180/the-other-side-of-change-by-maya-shankar/

Check out Maya’s podcast A Slight Change of Plans here: https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/a-slight-change-of-plans

Subscribe to the Masters of Scale weekly newsletter: https://mastersofscale.com/newsletter/

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

As a founder, you're constantly wearing multiple hats, usually at the same time, but the most

0:06.0

successful leaders have learned to hand a few of those hats off to the right people. That's where

0:11.7

Upwork shines. It's a one-stop shop to find trusted freelance talent across IT, web dev, design,

0:19.2

and admin support. And it's built to be simple. Register for free, connect with

0:23.9

freelancers who match your style and pace, and hire them with industry low fees. Upwork makes the

0:29.9

whole process easier, more affordable, and way less stressful. If your business is ready for that

0:35.6

next level, Upwork has the talent to help you get there.

0:39.2

Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's upw-O-R-K.com. Upwork.com.

0:49.5

As your company scales, the hardest part isn't ambition, it's alignment.

0:54.9

That's why Atlassian built the teamwork collection, an AI-powered teamwork platform designed to help teams move faster together.

1:02.6

By connecting Jira, Confluence, Lume, and Rovo, teams can easily align work to real business goals, plan and track progress together, remove knowledge silos, and access the real magic of AI plus human collaboration. Visit at lassean.com slash team changer to learn more. That's A-T-L-A-S-S-I-A-N.com slash team changer.

1:30.8

Every year product teams make the same promise.

1:34.1

This is the year we get clear on our priorities.

1:36.9

But how do you decide which ideas to prioritize?

1:40.4

Jira product discovery is built to help you decide with confidence.

1:43.9

It gives teams a single place to capture insights, prioritize the highest impact ideas, and share living roadmaps, stakeholders can rally around. And because it's built on Jira, what gets prioritized becomes what gets built, with end-to-end visibility from discovery to delivery.

2:00.7

Try Jira product discovery free at

2:02.6

Atlassian.com slash scale. Build the right thing. I'm doing two things which feel so audacious.

2:16.2

I'm pitching him on creating a new position in the Obama White House,

2:20.6

namely a dedicated role for a behavioral scientist.

2:23.8

And then I'm saying, oh, BT-dubs,

2:27.4

if you could also hire me into that role, that would be great.

...

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