This is Radio Atlantic. I'm Hannah Rosen. Today is Thanksgiving. A time for families to get together and often to disagree. In an era when a lot of us have totally lost the art of disagreeing well. I could explain or give you so many examples but I think you

probably know what I mean. One of our presidential candidates just called his opponents

vermin. So today we're going to have a conversation

about learning to disagree better. And I know that there's some people out

there who hear that and think I mean we need to be quiet

or just stop protesting or be more polite.

But it's not that.

It's about how to talk to people you disagree with, not in a polite,

avoidant way, but in a way that's more effective, that lets everyone get something

done. Now we're going to hear from two people. One is a prominent

politician, maybe one of the few who is actively trying to change how

political opponents talk to each other. From him I want to know how productive

disagreement actually works in the wild, given the high level of vitriol out there.

But before we get to him, we're going to hear from Amanda Ripley. She's a journalist who wrote a book called High Conflict,

why we get trapped and how we get out. A couple of months ago, Amanda and I did a live event together where she explained the ideas in her book.

Ideas that once I absorbed them, they changed how I digest the news, and also how I talk to almost everyone in my life.

Here's our conversation.

Let's start by saying, why are we here?

Why write a book or talk about high conflict right now at

this moment? Well I went into this I spent about five years following people who

were stuck in really toxic awful conflicts, political, gang conflict, civil war, all different kinds of

of conflicts.

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