How to grow your moral ambition, with Rutger Bregman
The Two Matts
Podmasters
4.4 • 523 Ratings
🗓️ 22 April 2025
⏱️ 72 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The Matts are joined by Dutch popular historian and author Rutger Bregman to discuss his new book, Moral Ambition. How does the world change for the better? Why do so many talented people do bullsh*t jobs? And what’s wrong with a life spent worrying about reducing your carbon footprint to zero? Rutger’s a man with strong opinions on all the above and more. It’s a fascinating in-depth interview on what you - yes, YOU! - need to do to fix the planet. Enjoy!
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hi there, this is Matt Kelly, the editor-in-chief of the New European newspaper and one half of the |
| 0:05.9 | two mats podcast. Just before we get into the podcast, I want to run past you a proposal. I know that many |
| 0:12.4 | of you are listening to this podcast, you've heard about the New European, but you're not quite sure |
| 0:16.3 | whether you want to jump in and subscribe. Well, I'm going to make it very easy for you. |
| 0:26.6 | An offer now for limited time, one pound for your first month, just one pound, then five pounds a month after, if you like it, you can cancel any time. |
| 0:31.0 | You will be supporting great independent journalism and you'll be supporting this podcast. |
| 0:35.9 | So if you like the podcast, you'll love the |
| 0:38.1 | new European, go to the new European.com.com.com.com, dot UK, forward slash two mats. That's the number |
| 0:44.9 | two, M-A-T-T-S. That's the new European.com.com.com.com. This is the best offer you'll get |
| 0:53.4 | anywhere. So act now. It won't be there forever. |
| 1:01.1 | Hello and happy Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, one and all. We are delighted to be joined on the |
| 1:08.1 | two mats podcast with Rutger Bregman. Rutger Bregman is one of my favourite thinkers. I've been lucky to interview him in the past. |
| 1:16.0 | He's written some fantastic books, including Utopia for Realists and Humankind, which I urge |
| 1:20.8 | you to read, but also particularly, moral ambition is the new book. Stop wasting your talent |
| 1:25.9 | and start making a difference. And it's a really excellent, interesting book. |
| 1:29.8 | And Rutger divides his time, I think, between London and New York. He's here and we're thrilled to have him in the studio. Welcome, Rookger. |
| 1:36.5 | Thanks for having me. It's good to see you again. |
| 1:38.3 | Great to see you again. It's been a minute. Separated by a pandemic and other things. |
| 1:44.5 | Can I just kick off by saying that, you know, having read your other stuff and admired it, |
| 1:49.9 | this is a very interesting break for you in that it's a very clearly practical book. |
| 1:56.8 | And it takes as, I mean, it has many premises and many guidelines, |
| 2:00.4 | but it takes as its, I think it's many premises and many guidelines. But it takes as it's, I think, |
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