You just wrote a new book called Job Moves that I have right here. What's kind of just a big idea

behind this book? The moment you stop making progress in your career is the moment you start

looking for another job. And so over the last 15 years, we've interviewed over a thousand people.

I've coached almost a thousand people because I think there's a billion people a year who switch

jobs. And ultimately, most of them end up with a job that's worse than the one they were at,

but they don't know how to find it. They don't know themselves well enough. There's a very tactical

piece of advice in your book, which is the idea of a jobcation. When you're in a startup, it changes who you

are. And the moment that you get out of that environment, you need to take the time to reset your mind and your body. I call it a jobcation, which is a job I can go do with one hand tie by high my back, so I can rest and recover to go do something else. It's about actually being able to go to the gym and work out and have some vacations. The moment you get comfortable doing nothing, you know who you are again and you can actually figure this out. You have this really interesting distinction in the book between job features, like salary and title and job experiences. It's very simple, very similar to product. There's

difference between product features and product experiences. And what you start to realize is

it's the experiences that keep you at your job. It's not just about the money because you start

to realize money is a surrogate for respect or I've got bills

to pay or I'm falling behind. Money has actually many, many different implications to it because

everybody wants more money. But the question is, why do you want more money?

Today, my guest is Bob Mesta. Bob is the co-creator of the Jobs to Be Done framework and worked alongside

Clay Christensen for many years. He's also started nine different companies. He's currently the co-founder

and CEO of the ReWired Group. This is Bob's second visit to the podcast. In our first conversation,

we got super deep on the Jobs to Be Done Framework. In this conversation, we talk about his new book

that he believes is going to be even more impactful to the world

than the jobs to be done framework.

The book is called Job Moves.

It's basically a very tactical guide to finding a job that you love.

I won't give it away, but if you're struggling to find a job

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