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The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

How to Find SAINT TMS

The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

Pocket Psychiatry: A Carlat Podcast

Health & Fitness, Alternative Health, Medicine, Mental Health

4.7524 Ratings

🗓️ 1 December 2025

⏱️ 16 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

SAINT TMS is now available. We take a closer look at its record-breaking effect size.

CME: Take the CME Post-Test for this Episode

Published On: 12/01/2025

Duration: 16 minutes, 04 seconds

Chris Aiken, MD and Kellie Newsome, PMHNP have disclosed no relevant financial or other interests in any commercial companies pertaining to this educational activity.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Call it S&T.

0:01.5

Call it Saint.

0:02.7

But who do you call when your patient needs this intervention for depression?

0:10.5

Welcome to the Carlet Psychiatry Podcast, keeping psychiatry honest since 2003.

0:16.3

I'm Chris Aiken, the editor-in-chief of the Carlat's Psychiatry Report.

0:20.1

And I'm Kelly Newsom, a psychiatric MP and a dedicated reader of every issue.

0:27.4

Last week, we learned that SNT-TMS brings 80% of patients to full remission, even after

0:34.4

3 to 7 failed antidepressant trials.

0:37.2

But we still have questions like,

0:39.4

how does it work, how long does it last, and how do you find it for your patients?

0:52.8

TMS uses magnetic pulses to change the electrical rhythms of the brain.

0:57.5

That's called neuromodulation.

0:59.7

If you want a more poetic version of that, rewind to our November 3rd episode where Owen Muir

1:05.0

compares it to music, good memories, and psychotherapy.

1:09.3

All of these things change the brain's rhythm in ways that change us, that can lead to new learning.

1:15.3

And learning is what the brain is doing in TMS.

1:18.1

It's learning how to not be depressed, or to not have OCD, or not want to smoke any more cigarettes.

1:24.8

So when Nolan Williams set out to improve on this treatment, he looked back on

1:28.9

how he learned as he crammed for college exams. We've known for some time based off of

1:34.8

space learning theory that you can't kind of load a bunch of information to the brain without breaks.

1:41.2

The brain needs breaks in order to produce proteins to strengthen dendritic spines

1:46.6

and make longer-term effects. And so there's been basic science experiments showing

...

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