How to do equality post D.E.I.
Think from KERA
KERA
4.7 • 911 Ratings
🗓️ 1 April 2026
⏱️ 45 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
DEI is being dismantled, what comes next for those interested in working toward equality? Kenji Yoshino is Chief Justice Earl Warren Professor of Constitutional Law at the NYU School of Law and the faculty director of the Meltzer Center for Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging. He joins host Krys Boyd to discuss why, though counterintuitive, opening programs up to all people does help minority groups, how the language of DEI backfired and how to build a “multicultural meritocracy.” His book, written with David Glasgow, is “How Equality Wins: A New Vision for an Inclusive America.”
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| 0:00.0 | Even when nearly every institution in the U.S. was working on diversity, equity, and inclusion, there was pushback, usually from people who thought any gains by marginalized groups would somehow come at |
| 0:21.6 | their expense. Then on the very first day of his second term in office, President Trump signed |
| 0:26.6 | an executive order to eliminate DEI throughout the federal government and many private |
| 0:31.0 | employers quickly drop their own programs. In 26, DEI is pretty much DOA. |
| 0:40.6 | From KERA in Dallas, this is think. |
| 0:41.7 | I'm Chris Boyd. |
| 0:47.3 | People who supported DEI's broad goals have been stunned by how quickly that reversal happened. |
| 0:52.1 | But my guest thinks the current moment might represent a reset rather than a full retreat. |
| 0:55.7 | He believes if advocates level the playing field for everyone without dismissing merit, there might be far less pushback against efforts to eliminate bias. |
| 1:02.0 | Kenji Yoshino is Chief Justice Earl Warren, Professor of Constitutional Law at NYU School of Law, |
| 1:08.0 | and Faculty Director of the Meltzer Center for Diversity, Inclusion, and |
| 1:11.5 | belonging. His new book written with David Glasgow is called How Equality Wins, a new vision for |
| 1:17.5 | an inclusive America. Kenji, welcome back to think. Thank you so much for having me again, Chris. |
| 1:22.9 | It's great to be with you. So people may recall President Trump blamed DEI for that midair collision between a military |
| 1:29.3 | helicopter and a passenger jet in 2025, despite any lack of evidence that DEI was even a factor. |
| 1:35.3 | You note, though, that by the time he made that claim, it had become a trend to kind of point |
| 1:40.3 | the finger at DEI for all kinds of disasters. |
| 1:43.3 | What do we know about why there has been such a backlash just a few years after it seemed like many organizations were all in on DEI? |
| 1:53.1 | I think it was really where you started in your introduction that people were increasingly feeling like diversity, equity, and inclusion practices were coming at their expense, |
| 2:03.2 | that individuals who lacked merit were being put |
| 2:06.6 | in positions of power simply because of demographic characteristics |
| 2:10.5 | like race or gender. |
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