How to Break Free from Revenge Addiction with James Kimmel Jr.
Guy Kawasaki's Remarkable People
Guy Kawasaki
4.5 • 679 Ratings
🗓️ 23 July 2025
⏱️ 55 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What drives us to seek revenge, and why does it feel so satisfying yet leave us worse off? Guy Kawasaki sits down with James Kimmel Jr., a lawyer turned behavioral science researcher who presents a radical reinterpretation of revenge in our society. Kimmel argues that much of what we call justice-seeking is actually a dopamine-driven revenge cycle that perpetuates violence and suffering rather than solving problems.
Drawing from his personal experiences as a youth and examples from history's most notorious leaders, Kimmel explores the neuroscience behind revenge addiction and introduces revolutionary concepts like the "non-justice system" - a method for breaking free from compulsive revenge-seeking behavior. His latest book, The Science of Revenge, combines legal expertise with cutting-edge brain research to reveal why forgiveness, not retaliation, is the key to healing and moving forward.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The person who forgives gets almost all of the benefits. |
| 0:03.8 | It is a misconception, and we can see this in these brain scan studies, that the beneficiary |
| 0:09.1 | of forgiveness is always the victim. |
| 0:11.9 | It's a hardwired way of self-healing from trauma and pain of the past. |
| 0:17.1 | The word give in forgiveness is not a gift to the perpetrator who caused your harm. |
| 0:22.2 | You're giving them nothing. |
| 0:23.3 | You don't even have to communicate with them to experience these amazing neurological benefits |
| 0:28.6 | of forgiving a grievance inside your own head. |
| 0:32.1 | So it is this kind of wonder drug or superpower that we have that's often been neglected in our society. |
| 0:43.2 | I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is the Remarkable People podcast, and we go all over the world looking for |
| 0:50.3 | remarkable people to help you be remarkable. And we found another great person. His name is |
| 0:57.2 | James Kimmel Jr. He's a lawyer. Don't hold that against him. And a behavioral science researcher. |
| 1:06.7 | And he proposes a really radical reinterpretation of the role of revenge in our society. |
| 1:14.6 | He, in sense, views much of what we call justice seeking as kind of a dopamine-driven |
| 1:21.4 | revenge cycle that probably causes more problems than it solves and perpetuates violence and suffering. |
| 1:29.6 | His latest book is called The Science of Revenge. It's a very fascinating book. |
| 1:35.3 | It utilizes his personal experiences, which maybe he'll get into as a youth, plus examples |
| 1:42.3 | from leaders such as Hitler and Stalin and Mao to shed light on the |
| 1:47.4 | causes of violence in our society. |
| 1:50.2 | So welcome to the show, James. |
| 1:52.2 | Guy, thank you for having me. |
| 1:54.3 | It's a pleasure to be here. |
... |
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