How to Beat the Gamification of Our Lives with C. Thi Nguyen

Factually! with Adam Conover

Headgum

Comedy

4.6 • 2.3K Ratings

🗓️ 11 February 2026

⏱️ 98 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The scoring mechanics of video games are ostensibly how the player is directed to have fun. Scores put interesting bounds on the experience of play, lead to creative solutions, and even inspire entirely new models of play, like speed running a video game. But when systems of metrics are applied to our actual lives, it’s… not as nice. “Gamification” is just one symptom of our society’s obsession with metrics, and while we tend to like to see Number Go Up, attempting to maximize our “scores” in various aspects of life only seems to make us unhappy. This week, Adam talks with C. Thi Nguyen, a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else’s Game. Together they unpack the hidden ways that metrics are used to control thought and limit perception of worth, and the life-affirming value of looking beyond the systems assembled around us. Find Thi's book at factuallypod.com/books

SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/adamconover

SEE ADAM ON TOUR: https://www.adamconover.net/tourdates/

SUBSCRIBE to and RATE Factually! on:

» Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/factually-with-adam-conover/id1463460577

» Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0fK8WJw4ffMc2NWydBlDyJ

About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com.

» SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1

» FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum

» FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/

» FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum

» Advertise on Factually! via Gumball.fm

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	This is a headgum podcast.
0:05.0	I don't know the truth.
0:08.3	I don't know the way.
0:10.9	I don't know what to think.
0:13.6	I don't know what to say.
0:16.6	Yeah, but that's all right.
0:19.4	That's okay.
0:22.0	I don't know anything.
0:28.4	Hey there, welcome to Factually.
0:30.1	I'm Adam Conover.
0:31.0	Thank you so much for joining me on the show again.
0:33.7	The episode you're about to hear is one of my favorite episodes of this show in a very long time,
0:40.6	partially because of our guest and the way this episode ended, but also because it's just
0:46.1	about one of my favorite topics, games. So let's get into it. You know, we're all familiar
0:50.2	with the score in a video game. That number quantifies and directs you based on how you behave in the game.
0:57.8	And it ends up shaping your interactions with the world of the game, right?
1:02.3	For instance, think of the score at the end of Mario, right?
1:05.5	That tells you how many gumbas you jumped on, how high you got on the flagpole, right?
1:09.4	But there are other ways to score the game.
1:12.2	You could also speed run Mario, where the object of the game,
1:15.6	ostensibly, is not to complete as quickly as possible.
1:18.4	But because you can see your time on the screen,
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Headgum, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Headgum and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.