Hi everyone, I'm Susie Weiss, and I've noticed there's just simply not enough podcasts in the world. So I'm launching my own. Let's go. Let's go, baby. Second Thought is a weekly show about pop culture. The stuff everyone's been binging, arguing about, obsessing over. Here's the thing about heated rivalry. I mean, even the most devoted swifties, I think we can agree, not our best work. We'll be hosting thoughtful conversations with culture's most important figures. Talk about genius.

Talk about generational talent.

Coming to headphones near you on April 17th with a first guest you won't want to miss. Available wherever you get your podcasts. I'm okay with disliking stuff and somebody else disagreeing with me and I can still sit in a room with you. As long as the thing we're not disliking is, like, someone's humanity.

Welcome to how to.

I'm Carver Wallace.

You know, every once in a while, I find myself thinking about the time Michelle Obama delivered the line.

When they go low, we go high to thunderous applause at the 2016 Democratic Convention.

I think it sticks in my mind now because nearly 10 years later, it looks like such spectacularly bad advice

for the moment the nation was about to face.

Like, yes, it was simple and quotable, and as a writer, I appreciated the play on words,

but I think at the very least least we can say it lacked some of

the nuance necessary to lead people into battle against encroaching fascism. The reality is that

fighting back requires all kinds of tactics beyond quote unquote going high. Specifically fighting

back also requires some very strategic and effective going low.

And that's what we're here to talk about. Going low. Particularly one small but important form of going

low, and that is criticizing, belittling, roasting, calling bullshit upon. In other words, being a hater. But I don't mean just

any old hater. I don't mean someone who goes around talking shit indiscriminately and making

everyone who they encounter feel bad. No, I mean a very specific kind of hating. Hating for good,

hating for the betterment of humankind. Today, we're here to talk about ethical hating. Hating for good. Hating for the betterment of humankind. Today, we're here to talk about

ethical hating. And for that, I have found what I believe to be the perfect guest. I'm Sachi

Cole and I am a culture writer at slate.com. Sachi Cole also writes the substack,

Hater Nation, which she calls a newsletter for assholes in Reform.

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